Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D.

Rough Transcript

• Zenka Caro [00:00:06] If you haven’t taken the survey yet, you can go ahead and take it. It’s in the chat that is going to be discussed in about 10 or 15 minutes. 

Zenka Caro [00:00:16] I just want to welcome everyone who hasn’t joined us before. This is our we do these events twice a month on the second Friday and the last the fourth Friday of every month. And there a chance for us all to get together, to learn from an expert and also to have time to talk to each other. So Sean is going to do an interview for 30 minutes, and then I’m going to put everybody in the breakout groups of four with a prompt. And this is a chance for you guys to hang out with each other, share your stories, get support. If you don’t want to join the breakout group, you don’t have to. You can stay in the main break out of the main room with Sean and I, and we’ll continue the interview. We’re going to ask him about his first contact experience there. And then the last half an hour is going to be a chance for people to share their first contact experience for our docu series. And if there is nobody that wants to share, then we’ll go ahead and continue with questions and answers. So feel free to to type any questions you have for Sean in the top box. I wanted to welcome some some excellent metaverse for those of you guys who are not familiar if everybody can put themselves on mute except for Sean and I. So for those of you who don’t know what Ekso Metaverse is, it’s a research platform for citizen science. It is a tool shop for all the smaller groups in the exo community that want to really showcase what’s going on in the world right now. So we do mapping, we do surveys, we do data analysis, and we support this year as things become more and more open in, the taboos are are dropping even more so. 

Zenka Caro [00:01:58] Sean is an incredible scholar and he has studied this phenomenon from more than thirty five main categories. We’re talking a hundred and fifty different disciplines of study. And he said, wait a minute, we’ve got to map this. We’ve got to see how these different people see the same, you know, question. Right. And how do they differ and where are they lining up? So he’s dedicated his life to this meta intregal. This is big picture view of what we’re of the EXO world. And he’s also dedicated his life to sharing this information with people. He’s started a class which which talks about 600 different books and different topics every week. It lasts an entire year. And he’s going to be bringing that to universities. And he also is interested in helping out new people. So he has so EXO Studies Institute, I’m just sharing the link there where his classes hosted in other information. And then I’m also sharing the link here. What’s up with UFOs? So this was a project he started about a year ago to say, hey, let’s get the people who are just starting this this whole journey of this question and let’s organize only the highest quality links and videos and articles that he vetted and his team have vetted. And that can be a really a really great way for people to start asking some questions. So, Sean, what tell us about you trying to get this into universities, your incredible class, and tell us a little bit about more about the topics and everything that you’re working with. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:03:42] Yeah, wonderful to be here. Zenka, Great to see everyone. Thanks for many of my friends from the Exo Studies program joining us tonight. So it’s just a delight to be here. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:03:52] I’m such a fan of Exo Metaverse, anything that has Exo in it or meta in a I’m way into and to have excellent meta in the same thing, it’s just like it couldn’t be better. So. So let me just give a little context. You know, I started out after I graduated from with my doctorate. I was an academic, I taught at a Masters program as a chair of two programs, focus on integrative theory. So integrating a lot of different ideas and applying those in different contexts. And I did that for about a decade. And so, you know, I love reading. I love writing, I love teaching. And then I decided I wanted more experience applying these ideas in the world. So I quit my job, which I loved and I wanted. And I went into business and then I did this metastable. Intervale was a company I launched and I did consulting and leadership development and, you know, for ten years and and then I kind of had my galactic awakening of sorts, which I can get into and. And so now I’m kind of like trying to bring it all together, and so I’m very much, you know, an educator, someone who loves working with people, teaching and learning and exploring ideas and frameworks, but then also applying them. So as I kind of had my kind of galactic awakening. It wasn’t long before I started looking at how could I bring this into kind of a learning environment. And so I have two main kind of projects or platforms that I’m doing, and they’re on opposite ends of the spectrum. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:05:37] One is www.whatsupwithUFOs.com, which my colleague Tom Curran and I put together. And it’s really you know, it’s a website. It’s got one hundred and fifty assets, some videos and articles, as you were saying, Senka, it’s really aimed for kind of the you know, the average person who’s curious about UFOs or ETS doesn’t really know where to go on the Web, is a bit overwhelmed by it. Know they’ve seen the New York Times article. Maybe they realize that this topic’s getting a little more traction. They want to find out more so that they can go to this website and it gives them a really nice creme de la creme savane of some of the best material out there in four different categories. So flying objects, hard science, direct experience and institutional dynamics. So that’s on one end is kind of like trying to provide a very tame, digestible, mainstream entry point to all of these fabulous topics, you know, something that you could send to your father in law and feel good about.

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:06:45] And then then on the other end of the spectrum, we have the red pill course. We have the Exo Studies with which is a year long program at this point. And in many of my friends are from that are here. And it’s forty two topics. It’s going down every single rabbit hole you can imagine related to UFOs and extraterrestrials and extradimensional and also a number of other topics that I feel are important for us to hold and and explore and understand the phenomenon and explore realities in general. And by Exo realities, I just really mean any kind of anomalous experience that someone might have, anything that’s kind of outside our typical mainstream notion of what’s real. And, you know, and so so this course, you know, you mentioned I lecture each week about an hour, sometimes an hour and a half. I usually summarize three to five books. There’s a bibliography on the website with six hundred and fifty books organized by the forty two topics. So those are kind of the context books that I’m also drawing on, even though I might not be lecturing on them any given time. But I’ve read most of all of those books, so they’re in my head, they’re in my thinking. And so I’m trying to provide a much bigger view of how do we approach these topics. And and then more recently, I’m in the process. I’m also the Dean at a graduate university in California, and I’m in the final stages of getting a new degree, a new master’s in Ph.D. Program approved that would have a concentration in Exo studies. So this really will be, as far as I know, the only accredited university on the planet that’s offering a Ph.D. in UFO studies or studies or paranormal phenomenon and combined in the way that I’m doing it. Jeff Kriple a program at Rice University, has a lot of similarities and there’s a few other interesting programs out there. But I think it’s a very unique graduate degree that’s going to be launched hopefully in May or June. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:08:57] So, yeah, and just going back to the what’s up with the UFO site? We’re also doing a six week course starting in June. And if you go to the UFOcourse.com you can see a little bit about that. But yeah, so that’s a little bit about kind of my teaching activities in the space and my efforts to serve the mainstream, but also serve those of us who have had anomalous experiences and really want a safe place to talk about them, compare notes and also bring critical thinking to the process and develop new frameworks and a real practice of inquiry. Oh, you’re on mute. 

Zenka Caro [00:09:34] That’s incredible, you know, on the last Exo Metaverse call, we had Grant Cameron and Pamela Harris and they have now donated their entire archives to Rice University. So another friendly university that’s accepting all this stuff. And we are also putting you know, Rob, I have have plans to put all of our contact experiences. Not only are we want to document them visually, but we want to put them in the Library of Congress through the StoryCorps. So so this is the beginning. And, you know, it’s not easy doing what you did, getting this at the university. So I think that’s incredible. I’m going to just share my screen for a second. If you guys can see, these are some of the incredible topics, the paranormal consciousness, synchronicity, contact modalities, galactic ambassadors, excel linguistics. You know, this goes on and on. It’s such an incredible deep dove. 

Zenka Caro [00:10:39] I also want to show you guys, so Shawn published a paper called The Wild Kosmos, and it gives you an overview. Let me see if I can pull it up real quick, because I wanted to show you guys some of the charts that are in here, which are just incredible. We’ve featured it on our Methods page where you can find out how most most people make contact. But let me open this up just to show you guys. So has he takes this Metaview. He’s looking at, you know, all the different, you know, what are the types of the classes, the variants, the perspectives, you know, what are the humanoid types? What are the non humanoid types? So this is an incredible research paper. And one of the things he’s done is he’s taken a look at what do they want and what are they. Right. And this is something we’re going to talk about in the breakout groups tonight. So we did a survey. Most of us think that there observers and some of us think they’re helpers and some you know, there’s this whole thing like noninterference, like, do we have to ask them to help? You know, I never forget, like, meditation, like, can you guys come in and all of a sudden all the hair is about like, you know, it’s like so don’t forget to ask give permission when you’re doing your meditation. So this is now then he’s taken what is the hypothesis, the ten biggest hypothesis and hypotheses. And then he’s added his his own hypothesis that is is kind of an amalgamation at the end. So time traveling hypothesis came out, number one so far in our research. And and so so these people believe that they’re advanced beings of evolved humans from the future coming back. Some people believe they’re beings from other dimensions that can enter our world. And the other top thing is beings from other planets that have means of inner stellar travel.

Zenka Caro [00:12:46] So so that’s really fascinating. Now, one of the things that’s incredible about Sean, because I’ve taken this class, is that he is like on the news, right. So he knows what everything’s going down. And I want to ask you about the big picture stepping back. You watching the news come out like are things speeding up? What’s happening with disclosure? Like what what what do you see as being unusual about now? 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:13:16] Yeah, that’s a great question, and in the social studies course, we have a channel on this space of new news and noteworthy.  And so we’re always posting articles that are coming out and the news and keeping up on and on that. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:13:32] Yeah, there’s a number of really interesting trends. And I don’t yet have this packaged into like one singular kind of declarative sense of what’s happening. But let me just highlight some of the trends, because I think they in themselves are provocative and giving us a sense of the complexity of the moment we’re in. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:13:52] [00:13:52]You know, one is, you know, UFOs are real is pretty much the new baseline, right. With The New York Times articles that have come out over the last three years with those stories being developed further by other investigative journalists and articles coming out and other mainstream articles, mainstream publications like Forbes, Scientific America, you know, Popular Mechanics, The Washington Post and so forth and so on. You know, it’s it’s really at a different point in talking about this. And while obviously a big swath of the general population isn’t yet clued into the fact that UFOs are actually real, and by real, I mean that their advanced craft flying around in our skies and they don’t seem like there are secret stuff. They don’t appear to be Russia. They don’t appear to be China. Right. So by real, I mean, the conversations really got right on the edge of saying these appear to be extraterrestrial in some sense. Now, that might mean extradimensional, might not mean extraterrestrial and coming from another planet, but that these are physical craft, it’s technology. It’s moving around in a way that is way beyond any black budget, special access projects associated with any government that we’re aware of. [80.1s]

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:15:13] [00:15:13]And so so that’s fascinating itself. And so the taboo is lifting. This is very much the case. The taboo is lifting. More and more people who have never talked about this topic are talking about it. And and that’s exciting. [12.4s]

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:15:26] And even, like you mentioned, Rice University. So, yeah, Kripal has what he calls the Archives of the Impossible. And he’s had Jacque Valle donate his papers. He’s had Whitley Strieber donate his papers and all the letters that he had and got the quarter million of letters. And then you mentioned Cameron is donating his stuff, you know, and we’ve been trying to get John Max, you know, estate to donate his papers as well. And there’s been a new biography by Ralph Blumenthal that’s come out on John. Mark, that’s just great. So so the UFO is real. It’s kind of where we’re at and. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:16:02] [00:16:02]What’s coming down the pipe, kind of like where this is headed is crash retrievals. And I just mean in the mainstream conversation, because with The New York Times, the most recent piece, they have three people going on record saying crash retrievals, i.e. off road vehicles not made of this earth, end of quote, you know, and so the fact that crash retrievals is really starting to be taken seriously. Chris Melen and Lou Elisenda have both been on Fox News and CNN basically saying crash retrievals are a real thing. Lesley Cain has done two additional interviews where she said crash retrievals are a real thing. And so where I think that’s going to go next is as the crash retrieval piece becomes more and more accepted, then we’re going to start talking about bodies. Right. And when we start talking about bodies and then we start talking about some are dead, some are alive. And then I think as that piece gets more and more kind of integrated into our cultural psyche, then we’re going to have to deal with the abductions. We’re going to have to talk about the abduction phenomenon and kind of what does that mean?  How long’s it been going on? Like, what are we really talking about here? And then I think once we’re dealing with that, we’re going to start talking about hybrids. Right. So I think there’s kind of a natural sequence of of this topic. In addition to this kind of trajectory. We’re in a meta crisis like we have never, as a planetary civilization, been dealing with so many major crises. At the same time, we have geopolitical crises, financial crises, health crises, educational crises. Like we are overwhelmed. And and this is interesting because it’s almost like the UFO thing is showing up on kind of in the mainstream. But there’s so many other major things grabbing our attention that like we’re not even noticing the UFO thing. It’s like, you know, a lot of people aren’t even paying attention to it because there’s so many other demanding issues. And so that’s fascinating because it’s almost like, you know, you know, it could literally land on the White House lawn and half the people want to believe it. Right. You know, like even if it was high definition video. Right. Because of all the deep fakes that are happening. And just like the post truth era. And so this is another piece we’re in this Posterous era where. [133.9s]

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:18:16] [00:18:16]We don’t know what’s real anymore, like this is up for debate and some unfortunate ways and in some important ways, right? So the whole sense of what’s real, what’s true, what’s evidence, we’re going to be going through a major crisis around that with the deep fakes. [14.9s]

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:18:32] [00:18:32]So anyone following kind of how that’s impacting the the evidence and how we prosecute, like it’s going to be a really interesting, you know, decade ahead as we navigate that. Experiencers are are being supported and they’re coming out more and more, whether it’s UFO experiences or just paranormal or extraordinary experiences or the psychedelic renaissance like the whole space of altered state, additional non rational states, other modes of knowing. Part of the beauty of the Post Truth era is us recognizing that we can’t just explain all of reality through a singular, rational frame of consciousness. Right. And so part of the crisis that we’re moving beyond that and allowing new forms of mythic understanding, imagination, archetypal, it’s really messy right now. And and we need more discernment and discrimination, but it’s kind of Pandora’s box has been open. And so this is the context in which disclosure is happening. And I think that’s important to realize that because it’s not going to be a clean, easy affair, like there’s going to be a lot of fighting. There’s going to be I mean, the UFO field is just riddled with turf wars. Right. [78.1s] So and that’s kind of part of the point of the, you know, my paper where I go through the 11, you know, the ten hypotheses and then I add my kind of 11th synthesizing one is, you know, a lot of people will really dig into one or two of those and say, this is it. This is the explanation. [00:20:08]My vast kind of scholarly research suggests all of them are right for some encounters and some evidence. Right. So how do we expand our understanding to make room for most, if not all of those 11 hypotheses that their time travelers and they’re from other planets and they’re multidimensional and they’re military ops and they’re dot dot dot [22.5s] like because because that’s the other thing is, you know, Jeff Crepeau refers to the UFO issue as a wastebasket problem, meaning that everything gets put into the same kind of basket of things. Right. You have Bigfoot and UFOs and hybrids and poltergeist and you have all these things. And it’s like, what’s the connection? How do we make sense of of these realities? And that’s part of the core focus of those studies, is to really make room for all those exo experiences and realities, to start to try and understand the linkages across them. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:21:08] [00:21:08]The other trend I see is we have really good books coming out, great movies coming out, amazing podcasts coming out, new documentaries that are really high quality, and then platforms like Exo Metaverse. Right. That are bringing together all the different players from a lot of places. And this leads into another trend I see, which is the UFO topic has been dominated by the United States and to some extent the UK and Australia. I see it’s going global, like we need to have a larger global conversation around what are the sightings happening in Africa, what are the experiences happening in Asia, how do we include what’s happening in South America more readily because it’s a global phenomenon. [41.7s] And yet a lot of the conversation has been dominated by kind of a Western kind of form of thinking and discourse. And so those are a few of the big trends that I see happening. And there’s a number of interesting linkages among them. But let me stop there. 

Zenka Caro [00:22:08] Yeah, that’s that’s a great yeah, it’s interesting, the sequence, you know, and and it makes me think, you know, oh, you know, are they going to spin this into fear? And they’re talking about abductions and everything. And again, that’s part of why we felt so galvanized to start Exo Metaverse is to really collect the actual the people’s experience. Right. So there’s not one person with the mic dominating the story. Greg, who’s on tonight, is organizing, along with a couple of other people, Kenny and Daniel, organizing a big map. And we even have maps of other planets so we can put our stories of our experiences and try to kind of put these puzzle pieces together. So we’re about to go into breakout groups and also talk to you, Sean, about your experiences. But we’re going to do one more question, and that is you had mentioned to me that we are entering a galactic civil know we’re going to become a galactic civilization. What does that mean? 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:23:07] Yeah. Yeah, it’s good. Yeah. I hope I have a front row seat to what that means. And I think we’re at the very beginning of that process. There’s a there’s a couple of things that I think of when I refer to that. One is [00:23:21]we are becoming a multi planet species. Soon we’re going to have a base on the moon, soon we’re going to be terraforming Mars. Soon we’re going to be going beyond that within the next decade, it seems very likely we’re going to have earth humans stationed semi-permanent only outside of Earth’s orbit. And so we’re becoming and I don’t just mean the International Space Station, I mean on the moon and Mars and beyond. So we’re becoming a multi planet species that once that starts to happen, that’s going to radically change our self understanding as a humanity. Right. And so that’s that’s a big one. And I think of it as in some ways equivalent to when the first picture of the earth was taken from the moon and that came back to us and we could see the earth as an object floating in the black void of space, the impact that had on our consciousness as a global civilization. I think something similar is going to happen when we touched down on Mars, for instance, and and there’s a crew of people who are staying there for the long haul. It’s going to it’s going to really shift our sense of who we are as a as a human species, as a species. [68.5s

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:24:31] [00:24:31]The other thing that’s a little farther out than that, but it’s already here, but we’re waking up to it more and more is we’re also becoming a multi species planet. We’re already a multi species planet, but we’re realizing and recognizing that. And we’ll be coming to terms with that. So those are two big things. And and a big part of my background is studying the evolution of consciousness, like how do we move from egocentric to ethnocentric kind of tribe based or community based to socio centric, which is more like kind of nation state based or a larger sense of community to world centric, which is really identifying with the whole planet and all of humanity. The next natural progression is galactic centric. Right. And so there’s a certain percentage, around 10 percent of the of the planetary population of adults who identify as being world centric. Right. Where they really take on their self identity is connected to the well-being of all people on the planet and in a sense, all sentient beings on the planet. The next natural evolution of consciousness is to go from planet centric to galactic centric. And so I think becoming a multi planet species and becoming a multi species planet is going to catalyze the the evolution of our own consciousness individually and collectively, to increasingly become galactic centric and situate ourselves in a larger galactic kind of framework. [88.5s]

Zenka Caro [00:26:01] Incredible. So we’re going to go into breakout groups now and we’ll continue the interview, so you will be getting a recording of this so you don’t worry about missing what Sean says. If you if you want to spend some time connecting with other people tonight, you can do that. If you don’t want to join the breakout groups, just don’t join. The message will come up and you just stay in this main room for the main interview. The question for tonight is, what is your theory on what are you know is this is part of our consciousness is a part of a dimensional universe. Is it time travel? What is it? So I’ve placed the the results to the survey so that I’ll give you a list of the hypotheses there to check on. You can also talk about somewhere where you need support in your exo journey so you can spend your time however you want. You’ll have a timekeeper in your group and each person will have five minutes to talk about anything they want. If they want to have feedback or comments, they can ask for that. Otherwise they just get the five minutes to to talk. So here we go. I’m going to go ahead. There is a moment where I have to reshuffle things. So don’t get started right away because I’m going to be reshuffling people until we can try to get about four people in each group. And then you’ll get a message when it’s time to come back. And again, you can open the chat again if you want to look at these results so you can get the hypotheses. OK, so here we go. And Sean, stay with me here. OK, here we go. 

Zenka Caro [00:27:39] And Sean, my question to you, and I’m going to be a little distracted as I move people now is, well, first of all, tell us, you know, we’re doing this documentary about first contact experiences because we feel it will help people get to get to that curiosity, that benchmark of having their first experience. We’re also asking people what their best experience was, what the most profound was. So I let you decide which one you want to go into. But we’ll talk about that and then we’ll get into a little bit more about why you think it’s so important to understand our subtle energies and things like that. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:28:24] Where should I go ahead and start to respond? Yeah, you can go ahead and respond. Yes. All right. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:28:28] So, you know, I often think of myself as a micro experience or sense that it’s like, oh, I’ve been a long term meditator. I’ve had a lot of little experiences. No big kind of blew me out of the water experience, you know, but I had a kind of a little bit of every kind of experience, you know, or like. So there’s a lot of different types of anomalous experiences I’ve had over the years. And at a certain point, some of them started to feel more galactic and natural in nature. And it and this was kind of part of my galactic awakening was realizing, like, you know, I don’t think I’m in Kansas anymore. You know, like like like somehow these experiences seem to have connected me to the cosmos in a different way than what I was expecting or what I was used to. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:29:19] So I don’t really have a clear sense of like, oh, here’s what had happened. It was kind of like it was kind of like snuck up on me. But there was a particular experience where it was in some ways I would think of this as my first because it was so obvious that it was galactic in nature that it really allowed me to say, OK, like this is a different category than other kinds of paranormal or anomalous experiences I’ve had or other encounters with different types of subtle beings. And that was this download experience that I had where I had I work with the Enneagram, which is a personality system, and it has a sacred geometric symbol connected to it. And I’d worked with it for 20 years and I got a series of downloads around the symbol that compelled me to start to figure out how to express this two dimensional image, which has nine points around it, and then lines that kind of cool star like geometry, how to turn that into a three dimensional geometric shape. And and that was very much like the Close Encounters of the third kind movie where he’s making the Devil’s Tower out of the mashed potatoes, where I had this information that was like in me that came from outside of me and being a longtime meditator and doing a lot of therapy and a lot of other kinds of self growth, like I felt very clear that this information wasn’t coming from inside. Like this was this came from elsewhere. And and so I started trying to figure this out. I was just like, I’ve stay up late at night. The kids and my wife would go to bed. I’d stay up till like one o’clock at night. And this went on for several months with little sticks, trying to make these little shapes and trying to figure it out. And and I kept you know, I could tell it’s getting closer and closer. And then I realized that I was essentially working with Octahedron, which is one of the platonic solids, and that then I started figuring out that, oh, actually the shape I was making was made out of Octahedron. And then I realized it was making a bigger octahedron out of smaller octahedron. Right. And so was this whole process. And then I was realizing that this the shape which I ended up creating out of 15 octahedron was this meta octahedron. And that is a sound technology that it’s all about harmonics. Right. And then I was getting the sense like this was our treant like somehow like this was the Koreans who were like messing with me. Right. Like they were somehow like beaming this in and that, you know, that there were a few other galactic groups that seemed to be also part of this process. And so, so and so. Yeah. So that would be like kind of the one of the more dramatic experiences I had as one of my first experiences where I realized, wait, I think I’m playing in a different ball game now, like this is different than a lot of the other subtle types of experiences I’ve had. 

Zenka Caro [00:32:22] Wow, that’s fascinating because sound is so powerful and I know you’ve been interested in music and sound and how that can totally change everything, I want to ask you about this this subtle can the subtle energies that we have in your body. And then I want to ask you about dimensionality and how you see that, because that’s such a it’s like a monkey wrench and all this. It’s like, oh, my gosh, seriously, we have to think of things as different dimensions. So how does that all play out? But first, let’s go to this idea of like, why do you have to have your body so fine tuned in order to receive this information? 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:33:03] Yeah, and so much of the phenomenon, the UFO, the ET/ED Extradimensional, the Exo phenomenon, realities are beyond the physical. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:33:19] They sometimes include the physical realm. But but much of it is beyond the physical. And and so like for just a quick example. [00:33:28]It’s not uncommon for a group of people to be together like, let’s say in a field, and for there to be a UFO sighting and encounter and for a couple people there to not have seen anything for a couple of people there, to have seen a cigar shaped craft and a couple other people there to have seen a more classic disc shaped craft. And so our natural tendency in this materialistic culture to say, well, if you have six people and two didn’t see anything and two saw something and two saw something else, then obviously that’s all fantasy and make believe, because if there was really something there, they would have all seen the same thing. But that doesn’t seem to actually be what’s happening. The reality of this phenomena, and it’s a subtle expression, is such that some people might not literally have the subtle energy bodies, the subtle psychic capacities to see anything that’s going on. [65.5s]

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:34:34] [00:34:34]And then the other four people have different kinds of capacities develop so that they see something, but they see it slightly differently. And this is also gets into what I call the mutual enactment hypothesis, where when our galactic brothers and sisters show up, they bring something to the party. Right. Meaning that they’re real, they’re really there. But then we bring something to the party in terms of our own cognitive tendencies to perceive in a certain way our own cultural lenses, our own personality dynamics and perceptual lenses. And so there’s this interplay between what they’re bringing and what we’re bringing. And so we sometimes see and experience different phenomenon. [38.0s

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:35:13] [00:35:13]And so I actually see this example of two didn’t see anything to solve the cigar save craft and to saw a disc shaped craft as actually evidence that it actually happened. Right. So this is the opposite of how our general kind of culture would see it. And that’s because to me, when you include them all 10 dimensionality include the subtle senses. It would be natural and obvious for it to show up that way. [26.3s]

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:35:39] [00:35:39]The the yogic traditions and the esoteric traditions. If you really look at what they have to say about subtle senses and you kind of make a list and I’ve done this across those traditions, there’s at least 50 major difference, subtle senses that one can develop. And we’re familiar with like clairvoyance, clear audience, clear sentience. Right. That’s three three of at least 50 major qualities of kind of psychic perception that we can cultivate and develop. And different people have natural tendencies to develop different ones. So this is what makes the whole phenomena interesting, because let’s say I have one, five, seven and 10 developed and you have three to 12 and 40 developed. Right. We’re going to experience phenomena differently, maybe in some cases the same and similar. But another case is really different. It doesn’t mean that what we’re experiencing is not true or real. We just have different qualities of energetic perception and capacity developed karmically or through our meditations, through our practices. And so developing our multidimensional awareness, I feel, is a really essential part of contact and disclosure. [76.6s] Right. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:36:58] And because part of it is it also allows us to extract ourselves from the materialist inculturation that we have. And and I find it in myself, in spite of my anomalous experiences, in spite of my study of these subtle senses and my active cultivation of them, I still find this little reductionistic, materialistic scientist inside me who’s judging that, no, that’s not real or that can’t be possible. Right. [00:37:26]So so it goes deep. It’s like cellular. Because, you know, I went through elementary school and junior high in high school and then college before I really started venturing into these other domains. Right. So I had 20 plus years, not to mention just the morphic fields of cultural awareness and thinking that we’re surrounded in. Right. So so I think by by developing our cultural or subtle senses, it allows us to cultivate self gnosis. Right. It allows us to develop the discerning capacities to know that something’s real, regardless of whether or not the external culture around us is validating it for us. Right. And so I think that’s really important that we have we need to be critical thinkers. We need to reflect on our biases and our tendencies to perceive things in a certain way or our confirmation biases like. But we also need to cultivate our self gnosis so that we can trust our experience. We can trust what other. The answers are saying, right, and we can combine that with critical reflective frameworks and distinctions and so developing our subtle senses, I feel are a big part of that whole process. And the more we do that individually and collectively, I think the faster disclosure is going to happen. [79.1s]

Zenka Caro [00:38:47] Yeah, that’s beautiful, that’s beautiful because the people that have been in here before have been able to have that self gnosis and also be able to speak their mind. That’s really powerful. In terms of the dimensionality. How do you see it? Do you see that there is multiple dimensions and then some are bleeding into this dimension, but then we could essentially travel to another? Like, how does that all work? 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:39:16] Yeah, you know, I almost feel that no one has a really good handle on this, you know, like there are a lot of authors who present a great overview and I think really highlight a particular approach. And I think there’s a lot of truth in many of those different approaches. But I also feel like we’re just scratching the surface. [00:39:38]We’re just starting to kind of figure it out because there’s multidimensional quality, but there’s also multiple timelines. And then there’s like there’s just the way these kind of loop back in on each other. So I think, you know, the kind of basic framework of like first density all the way up to like ninth or twelfth density and different people identify nine, 10, 12. You know, like that’s a helpful. Orientation that often is based on frequency and vibration, but then within densities, there’s different dimensions and sometimes people use density and dimensions anonymously. But other times I think it’s important to tease those apart and talk up that I think of dimensions as being different. OK, it’s different realities within a density, right, so you think of the densities as these different bands of frequency and then within that band of frequency, there’s all kinds of different worlds and realities that are happening. And, you know, and so but different authors kind of define and use these terms in slightly different ways. Even our quantum physics uses dimensions differently than they sometimes use fourth and fifth dimension in different ways. So there’s a lot of confusion around how these concepts do and don’t kind of interface with one another. But yeah, I think we’re dealing with multiple dimensions, multiple timelines and and also past, present and future are cycling in on each other. [94.2s]

[00:41:14] [00:41:14]So it’s kind of like you have these three axes, you know, dimensions, timelines, and then past, present and future are kind of overlapping and complex, dynamic ways. [10.8s] So in a sense, it’s like everything is happening. Everything you can imagine is happening and and we can tap into that and lots of different ways. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:41:35] [00:41:35]One of the other very powerful experiences I had was experiencing myself as a mantid being. And what was really stood out in that experience was it felt like I was experiencing a parallel self. I was experiencing myself as a mantid being in the current moment of now, at the same time in relationship to Sean as an earth human who’s forty eight and who will likely live hopefully another 50 years. Plus, I had the experience that this mantid being that was my parallel self was also my past lives and my future lives in the sense that that mattered, being with several thousand years old and is going to live to be a couple more thousand years old. Right. So it was some kind of soul streambed connection that I was having with this being a self. But it was also compared to me was a past life and also compared to me is a future life. Right. And so this, I think, starts to get into the complexity of the multi dimensionality, the multiple timelines, the past, present, future. [72.8s]

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:42:49] You know, I also had an experience where I was in three places at once. Right. And so that was really bizarre. Right. So it wasn’t just by location, it was try location. And they were different realms. Right. And so so I think there’s a lot more going on than what we often realize and a lot more going on than what even a lot of the best authors in this space realize. 

Zenka Caro [00:43:15] Wow, that’s so fascinating because I was going to interject and ask you to talk more about time and, you know, and how that actually worked. Do you have anything more on that? That’s really fascinating what you’re saying, because, you know, the movies show where it’s like, yeah, you can enjoy sense talks about this, having like multiple copies of you and you’re observing just to like, wow, wow. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:43:42] Yeah. Well, you know, also in the survey, most people are selecting the time traveler hypothesis. Right. So there is a strong sense that a lot of the ETS and heds that we’re interacting with are in some sense ourselves from the future that we’re interacting with. 

[00:43:59] [00:43:59]At the same time, you can look at a lot of channelers, a lot of channelers, especially the really good ones who have been doing it for 20 years. Plus many, if not most of them have a primary entity that they channel. And at a certain point they realize and they start to talk about how that entity is actually a future self of theirs that’s living in another dimension. And you have this with Bashar, you have this with Lisa Royal Holt. You have this with many others. So that and that’s part of why that’s the being they’re so capable of channeling is because it’s them. Right. So there’s a very strong, social, energetic connection between themself and this parallel self who in some cases might be thought of as a future self, but in a different timeline or a different dimension or reality. But there’s that kind of entanglement that that between them and there. And so that becomes the primary entity that they channel, even if they channel other beings. [61.6s] Right. So so I think there there’s a lot about time. And I forget I was in the class. 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:45:08] [00:45:08]I’m forgetting who said this, but they talked about how we we’ve been in the space age. We’re going to be entering the time age. Right. We’re going to be entering into a much deeper inquiry and understanding of the complexities of time. Right. And so we’re going to move out of the space age or integrate it with the time age. And I think we have a lot to learn about time. I think it’s a much more wild ride than than we realize. [25.7s]

Zenka Caro [00:45:35] Yeah, fascinating. Fascinating. So we have one more question before we bring people back in to talk about their experiences and then get to some Q&A. We had talked about this notion of doubleness. What does that mean? 

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:45:51] Yeah, so this is a concept that I’ve been developing. It was inspired by Jeffrey Kripal’s writing and he uses some similar concepts. But the the more I studied phenomenon and my own experiences, I kept coming up against the experience of the phenomena being two things at once. Right. So it’s inside and it’s outside right. Itself and other it’s time and space. So it’s one of the core characteristics of Ekso phenomenon, be it Bigfoot, Poltergeist, UFOs or any ghosts or any number of of these kinds of phenomena is this quality of doubleness. Right. And so so there’s three major luminary liminal boundaries that I talk about. One is the subject object inside outside boundary. So a lot of this phenomenon is both. A lot of this phenomenon is both self another and the example of the channel channelers channeling them for their future selves as an example of that. And then also there’s all these complex ways, time and space are related and. The evidence for UFOs, for instance, is there’s both a lot of evidence and there’s not enough evidence, right? So there’s all this physical trace evidence, all these different kinds of evidence that really indicates this is in part a physical phenomenon.

Sean Esbjörn-Hargens Ph.D. [00:47:19] And yet the ambiguity of the evidence never gives us a smoking gun, never gives us a slam dunk. Right. So it has this doubleness. And this is why the phenomenon is often thought of as a trickster, because it’s both. Right. You know, Kripal talks about how the stranger something is the more truthful it is. Right. So so like when you’re here, because it gives us an example. And Mike Cleeland also talks about this with his al synchronicities. You ask someone about their experience and they say, yeah, I was kind of like this and it kind of sounds somewhat normal and rational. And then they get to know you a little bit later more. And then they say, well, you know, actually there’s this other layer and they kind of of say, describe this other thing. And so it gets really weird. 

[00:48:05] And then they as they realize, you’re not going to think they’re crazy, then they say, well, let me tell you this other part of the situation, it just gets weirder and weirder and weirder and that that’s actually an indication of its truthfulness. Right. Whereas we would generally think of the weirder it is being, the more imaginative or false or made up. But in these contexts, it’s actually an indication that it’s true. Right, because it’s so fucking weird that like it’s stranger than science fiction. Right? Like, it’s like you can’t even make this shit up. It’s so weird. Like when you go through McLoughlin’s examples of the synchronicities, it’s just like what? Like there’s no way. Right. It’s just like off the charts. Weird, right? So this is kind of that doubleness. 

[00:48:52] Richard Doll and talks about disclosure is impossible. Right. The national security state has a clamp down on this and they are not letting up. So it’s impossible at the same time. It is inevitable. It is happening. It has already happened. It’s going to continue to happen. Right. So it’s both impossible and it’s inevitable. Another example of doubleness. The US military says nothing to see here. Keep moving along, folks. So that’s their public position. Their private position is this is the most top secret, above top secret thing ever. And, you know, and we’re going to use everything we can to kind of keep it under wraps. So you have this doubleness. This information is a combination of lies and truth. Again, doubleness. Robbie Graham does a great job in his book, UFOs in the Silver Screen or Saucers in the Silver Screen, rather, where he talks about how movies make UFOs more real and less real at the same time. Right. So throughout so many aspects of the UFO phenomenon and Ekso realities in general, you have this doubleness, you have the phenomenon as Simon tenuously two or more things at the same time. And I have like 20 other examples I could give. And so for me, it’s really emerged as a core feature of the phenomenon, the the other in a slightly different category of kind of common aspects of the phenomenon. There’s four that I’ve come across. 

[00:50:32] There’s energy, there’s light, there’s intelligence and there’s participation.

[00:50:39] Those four qualities show up across all the phenomena that I’ve studied, light, energy, intelligence and participation. 

[00:50:54] You’re on mute. 

[00:50:55] Well, yeah, thank you so much, that’s so interesting. I love when you when you put things in buckets and I’m like that too. It’s like I want to organize all this information in these understandings. So that’s incredible. So welcome, everybody, back from the breakout rooms. I also wanted to take a minute right now to just send my appreciation to the people that have joined as Ekso Metaverse members in the last two weeks. We have AC Michael Court, Roger, Mike, Cody, Chester. I can’t remember writing Shawn. It’s not John, but something like that. Sorry, Mara, Mary, Kristen and Danielle. So I just wanted to thank you for for being along this incredible ride. It’s going to be a very interesting year and we’re glad to have the pioneers. Which are you guys here with us really getting organized for? When the floodgates opened, this grid said, you know, mommy and daddy, like the government are going to say it’s OK to talk about this stuff and you’re going to watch the whole world, the curiosity come out. So we’re grateful that you’re here. I also wanted to tell you that the next Ekso Metaverse memories hang out is going to be with Ri’s Vork. He has published some very interesting books. One is called The Stimulation Hypothesis. He’s from M.I.T., he’s an entrepreneur. He worked in there. They’re gaming the game lab at MIT and then he’s coming out with the simulated universe any day now. So it’s it’s pretty fascinating. And he’ll be joining us on the fourth Friday of next month. So that’s going to be something exciting to look forward to. So now I want to open it up to everybody here tonight to go ahead and share a contact experience. Right. It can be your first contact experience because again, we really want to get people excited about having that first experience on the website. We’re tracking how people have those first experiences. You know, is it through meditation, astral travel, plant medicine, CE five, what is it? What we’re actually launching an interdimensional travel agency that can handhold people to get this first experience. So if you’ve had an experience and want to talk about your first experience, we welcome that. Or you can talk about your most profound, your best experience. So there’s two options. I ask if you’ve already shared before your story to wait until other people have gotten a chance to talk. I also would ask that the people that are sharing would agree to publish this, because that’s the whole idea, right, is to develop this story, archive, the galactic archive for the world. And we’re going to ask you to sign a release so that we can go ahead and publish it on on YouTube and things like that. So if you don’t want to have your story published, don’t speak tonight, but then you can do it in the next Ekso Metaverse hangout. And then if you do speak, I’m going to ask you to click on this link that I put in the chat. You can copy it and save it. That that will that will let me know and Rob know that you’ve agreed to to have your story clipped out. And if we don’t get that back, we won’t be able to post. So I thank you for that. So there is on the reactions button here at the bottom, you can raise your hand. It’s a it’s an icon on the bottom. You can raise your hand and that’ll give that’ll give me notice that you want to go ahead and share. And if we don’t have people that want to share tonight, well, we’ll get to ask Sean some more questions. So let’s see what what we want to do tonight. 

[00:54:42] I know a lot of you guys have shared in the past. So is there anybody that’s feeling like wanting to share? If so, you can raise your hand. Physically or through the reaction to. 

[00:55:01] OK. All right, so we have a quiet group, so let me know and raise your hand if you’ve changed your mind, but otherwise, we’re going to switch over to question and answer with Sean so you guys can go ahead and put that into the chart. We already have a question which was which was about the Inception movie. So for those of you who went into the breakouts, we had a very interesting conversation about the space age. And now the time is the age of time and how is really more baffling than we’ve ever considered. And we have a question from Mark. Do you believe experiences similar to what was shown in the Inception movie could also be due to simultaneous experiences occurring in multiple dimensions? I don’t know if you’ve seen that movie. It’s incredible. 

[00:55:50] Yeah, I do, you know, I think the Inception movies, very provocative and exciting movie, and I’ve seen people critique and say, you know, based on their understanding of lucid dreaming and other kinds of altered state, non ordinary consciousness experiences and saying, you know, it doesn’t really happen that way or that’s not how dreams work. And OK, fair enough. I think those are probably some worthwhile critiques and considerations. But I think when you add in multiple timelines, you add in time loops. You you add in multiple dimensions. Like I think you can very quickly get to that. 

[00:56:33] And I think, you know, when there are some things too, is like, do you think of the 20 in back folks who have come out and talking about the secret space program? You know, one of the things I’ve seen in response to some of those claims is that those are actually happening in other timelines. And people think they’re they’re they’re mistaking them for happening in this timeline. And but they’re having these actual experiences or these other dimensional experiences, these other timeline experiences. And so, you know, the argument is that that we don’t really have a secret space program in this timeline, whatever that means, but that in these other kind of parallel earths and other parallel timelines, that something along those lines is happening. And so you get this bleed through across these timelines. And so some of the kinds of experiences that people have and are reporting aren’t necessarily all happening in the same reference of reality. And this is gets into a concept that I’m wanting to develop more, but it’s what I call social ontologies.

[00:57:38] And it’s the idea that we have different distinct, but in many cases overlapping realities, ontological realities, meaning they’re real. They’re they’re independent of us in some meaningful sense, even though we’re enacting them and participating in them and constituting them in important ways. But that there’s this way in which, you know, we’re playing a role with how all of this is showing up. And, you know, and so the the timelines, you know, I think is a really fascinating thing because, you know, like my experience with the man as the mantid be like I still don’t know how to make sense of that. Right. And it was really trippy. But I think there are these glimpses we get of how time is the new frontier. Like space is not the new frontier. Time is the new frontier. And I think as spiritual beings, we’re going to be learning a lot more and the coming years and decades around the plasticity and the dynamic nature of time. If you haven’t read Eric Margaux’s time loops or listen to podcasts where Eric’s talking about his research, he’s talking about our own precognitive capacities, and he’s doing it in a very narrow context, like he’s really drilling down into a very particular aspect of dreaming and experiences of these time loops. But but what’s so great about that research is even though it’s kind of micro focus, it just highlights that if we go into particular areas and really drill in, we can discover some really fascinating things about time. And the implications of that across so many other contexts is pretty dramatic. 

[00:59:24] Yeah, I’m going to go ahead and highlight Greg, who is I forgot to ask people who have shared in the past but want to share something else to come forward. Greg is part of our consortium. He has been helping out with the programing on all the surveys and also the maps. And he’s has many years into this as an experiencer and it’s just incredible. So welcome, Greg, and thanks for sharing. 

[00:59:54] Thank you, everyone. This has been great. Thank you, Sean. You’re fascinating. So this is this is wonderful. Well, this is the short but nice one. Goes back to 2004. And I was on my way from San Francisco Bay Area where I live up to Portland, actually, to see a free energy conference. That was actually quite interesting. And I stopped that just on the way up. By the time I got myself unpacked and all, it was about midnight. But I put on my gloves and my jacket and I headed up, headed up to the mountains, to a logging trail and down to a secluded site that I know and. Stood out there by myself in the almost dark under the stars and trees and put on a I was a tape at the time of a beautiful meditation to see if I had guided meditation that included Earth, peace and galactic societies. And whatever it was, it was wonderful. But at one point, the person. We are asked to stand up and shake the hand of the person next to us. Well, there was nobody next to me. I had my big gloves on and I remember I went and looked at each glove and went like that. And just then not 100 yards away, two beams phased in. They were just not there. And then they just slowly became solid and they walked towards me and bowed their heads at me. I bowed my head back at them. Now, what was amazing, these two beams looked exactly like Casper the Ghost, two of them twins. And they’re just wonderful energy. I didn’t have any fear whatsoever. And they came up and one took one arm, one took the other arm. And we did the rest of the meditation together. And at the end we are down to one, out to the other. They walked away and just faded out and they were gone. And I had to pinch myself afterwards to go to that really just happen. But it was just wonderful. And I’ve seen these Kaspar’s multiple times that Shasta and Joshua Tree, and they’re just wonderful beings. They’re very childlike. They’re not children at all, but that they’re definitely not children, but they’re very childlike, very curious. 

[01:02:51] So that really made my trip and awful, awful thing. So excellence that we have more next. He has also been with us for many of these sessions. I’m going to share some of his links in the chat. And OK, I’m going to put you on your pin if you want to go. Great. Welcome, everyone. 

[01:03:20] This is Mike or Moose, I’m also founder of something called We Are Energy Beings. That has to do with a lot of expenses I’ve been having for a few years. I want to share something very interesting that happens. Before I get to that, just a quick note. The reason I asked that question about the inception is because I’ve been having similar experiences for a long time where I would go in a dream stage and then I’ll feel like I have woke up, woke up from the dream. But I’m actually still in some other level. I’m expecting something different. So dreams within dreams and so on. So I actually have one. This recently happened to me just a few days ago actually, as well. But the one I wanted to share is the severe it’s true story. This is Max sometime in 2019 and it was I’m not sure if it was a time travel experience or a parallel reality experience. 

[01:04:26] All I remember is I went to sleep and I wake up and I’m seeing two galaxies colliding with each other from a far distance and everyone in the planet is trying to get off the planet and go somewhere else like they have to travel away from this whole zone. And I’m trying to help some people and others are trying to help out. And one of the people or persons who are next to me, he said, no, you need to go right now. And I said, no, you need to get on the pod and leave. And he kept saying, no, you are very important to me. You have to go right now. And I got in and left. And that’s what I remember from the very interesting thing that happened is I work as a health care analyst on my day job and impiety. Next morning I go to work and I’m doing my stuff at the job on the side. I read Google News and stuff and all of a sudden the news pops up. And was talking about that in a few million years to have researched and found out that the Andromeda galaxy will be colliding with Galaxy. They almost give me chills, like, I mean, I didn’t know about this before that, especially since I just had a dream about something similar to the day before. But that was just a very interesting experience that happened in terms of true story. And I was not sure if it was a time travel or part of the experience, but that was very interesting. 

[01:06:08] Wow, interesting. Yeah, it’s so interesting because when we have these visions of the future, we have to talk about them. You know, they’re so fascinating. And Andromeda is one of the it’s the only thing that’s moving toward us like this. 

[01:06:24] But that’s pretty wild. Right. OK, so I also see a lot of mentions of Shasta. I want to remind you that Greg Cameron and Paul Harris talk a lot about experiences in Shasta as well in the last session. It’s pretty totally fascinating. 

[01:06:42] OK, so that your next and I’m going to I’m going to pin you here, so go ahead and make it yourself. Thanks for sharing. 

[01:06:52] Yeah, so, yes, dippin me, but I have to go, my video has to go away because I have such bad bandwidth, so I hope everyone can still hear me even though you can. 

[01:07:03] Yeah, great. 

[01:07:03] You want to try it even not because otherwise it’ll be a recording. Yeah. You’re in Sedona where I am. It’s so great to to hang out for go ahead with weapons. 

[01:07:16] OK, I’ll try but it’s pretty bad and I want to say hi to all my peeps. Son, it’s so good to see you. 

[01:07:22] I just can’t, I can’t get enough of everybody look like just total jungu for our community and the topic, it’s just so lovely anyway. So and it’s also fun and my freezing or is it working so far. It’s working pretty well. Great. 

[01:07:39] Yeah, probably a delay. But what’s also fun is I’ve been on a couple of the metaverse calls now and I’m recognizing people that I was in break out groups with and that’s really fun how community grows even in this virtual way. So I just was inspired by Greg to share my Shasta story and I was also talking about it earlier today. It’s really quite a big experience and I don’t mean to be glib when I share it. It was very profound and freaky because I haven’t had any contact at all experience before then. But I was in Shasta and I was on the north side of the mountain. I actually don’t think I’ve talked about this on the call either, but who knows? I was on the north side of the mountain, which is really well known for interactions, and I didn’t quite know that at the time. And I was laying, I was housesitting. And this these people had this gorgeous view of the mountain and I just never moved off the couch. It was a fabulous couple of weeks. And I was laying with my head to the mountain and all of a sudden that that feeling where you’re immobilized and just the density of your body. And I didn’t I know there’s a word for it, but I it wasn’t paralysis, but I couldn’t move and I was really enjoying that’s what it was. 

[01:08:53] And then and then all of a sudden from like back back here somewhere, it was so visceral. It was so like I could psychically see what was happening even though I was in the back of my head. So this like rectangular like kind of oblong geometry shaped like came like my brain opens and this shaft opened into my brain, like went right in the center. And I’m just sort of watching this. Fascinating. How is I possibly watching it? And the shock went in an open. So there was access right into my brain and I did not know what was going on at the time, but I’m pretty sure that’s an implant was being removed. That was right somewhere in know, very close to my pineal gland. And and so I’m just trusting that someone will tell me if I need to change my video. I’m just going on here. So, OK, so I didn’t know what was going on. And in in hindsight, it took me about a week to recover from being really blown out by this experience. And in hindsight, I know that it was an artery, an intervention, removing an implant from my brain. They love brain surgery, whether it’s. Anyway, I work really closely with the Koreans, I trust them implicitly, and so that happens. And then I think it was two or three days later, I was just in the bathroom just doing what you do in a bathroom. And I don’t mean to be graphic, but I’m sitting there on the toilet and I hear like a metal chink fall in the toilet. And there was there was nothing that it could have been except for that. And I have to say, I was so freaked out, I didn’t look. But I know for sure that there was some kind of process of, you know, not that something would be a heavy metal, but I know what happened. It’s one of those things where I can’t really explain it and I can’t really tell you for sure that some sort of technology was processed through my body. But it was a whole experience and really I’ve only understood it in the past and or in hindsight. 

[01:11:06] So there’s that was really far out experience. Just wanted to share that sharing during. 

[01:11:14] Awesome. Awesome. So we have a question. We have just a few more minutes. We have a question from Susan. And Susan is asking, Sean, is there a correlation between parallel universe experiences and time? 

[01:11:32] I think there are many correlations, I think we’re just starting to explore and understand the different ways that occurs. Let me tell you a quick story that I heard from Courtney Brown, who’s with the Foresight Institute, which is a remote viewing organization, and he talks in this one presentation, talks about how they did this remote viewing session and discovered that there was going to be this really big earthquake in L.A. And so and they had a day and they had a lot of details about it. 

[01:12:12] And then the day came and there was like, I think a very minor earthquake. 

[01:12:20] And and then they were left wondering, like, did we have the wrong data? Like, because they have a really sophisticated set of protocols and they were really thrown off that that that there wasn’t a bigger earthquake. And they were concerned because they really want to have a methodology that’s reliable and, you know, and so they went back and started doing additional remote viewing sessions to try and figure out what had happened, like why did they get it wrong and think it was going to be a bigger earthquake than it was. And I think they they thought it was going to be like eight point something on the Richter scale and it was like to point something. So it was like this this little teeny minor earthquake, whether they what they started to piece together and realize was that the when they did the first session, they actually had remote viewed L.A. in a different timeline. And in that timeline, it actually had occurred at this much higher Richter scale amount. And that then so it occurred on a particular timeline in L.A., but it was so strong in that timeline that it rippled out across the other timelines and that by the time it got to our timeline, it was just this little teeny two point something earthquake. Right. But we did have an earthquake on that day and like it was documented. And so this really opens up. And I think change is how we might begin to think about how something that happens in one timeline impacts and influences associated timelines. Right. And we also come across this with nucular atomic blasts and how when those have occurred on our planet is basically wiped out beans on lots of other dimensions and another timeline’s. And it really screwed things up, which is partly why the needs have been so on top of the nuclear thing since we developed that capability. So that’s just a quick example to just kind of open the door for us to keep exploring the correlations between parallel timelines and dimensions. 

[01:14:28] Wow, fascinating. Totally fascinating, because you I’ve heard that remote viewers, when they see stuff, they go to the most emotional experience. So if they’re scanning something, they’re scanning the ocean. They’re going to go to whatever time 19, 20, when that’s when the boat sank because it was it had that weight, like you’re talking about, to go through. I wonder if there’s other people that are in those other timelines or other versions of ourselves which chose that time. Like how fascinating. So we just assumed. That’s what I wanted to ask you. What are you curious about right now? Like what? That’s one of the things we want to do it. Zooniverse is right. All the remaining questions like can can the 80s and other dimensions us like I mean, all of the questions. But what what is been something you’ve been questioning or wanting to research these days? 

[01:15:25] Well, I highlight this a lot in the Wild Kosmos paper that you showed people at the beginning, and it really remains probably my foremost research question, which is basically what is the ontological status of nonhuman intelligences or alternate human intelligence, as you know, like a. I want us in this scientific culture to come to terms with and open up to the reality of these other beings. And so I’m I’m interested in understanding how to translate the veracity of those beans into ways that people here can open up and become curious and interested in that. But I’m also but there’s another side like if you look at the work of Paul Eino, who’s by all accounts kind of like the foremost ghost hunter. But for him, most ghosts, most entities that are experienced as a ghost are actually humans that are living in an alternate dimension. And he tells the story that I’ll be real quick about, but it highlights kind of my own interest and the ontological status of these beings. 

[01:16:41] So there’s a woman who’s in college and she’s with a friend and they’re driving through rural Connecticut on a long weekend and the woman in the passenger seat just says all of a sudden, stop, stop, stop. 

[01:16:58] The driver stops kind of like freaked out, like, wait, what’s going on? Know the woman in the passenger seat jumps out of the car and and it’s kind of like getting like dusk. I believe it runs up to this house and it’s just kind of like totally weird, like, why is she running up to this house? They’re like driving through rural countryside and what’s going on here? She knocks on the door and later she reports that she was just so compelled she couldn’t help herself. She just like said stop, got out, ran up to this house, knocked on the door. 

[01:17:31] The woman who lives in the house comes to the door, opens the door, screams bloody murder, right? Upon seeing this woman standing on her porch, the husband who’s in the house is kind of coming right there as his wife’s opening the door. And then the woman on the porch is kind of like freaked out that this woman screaming like that. And then she turns to the man who’s standing there, the husband, and she says something like. 

[01:18:04] I have this strange feeling that I’m connected to this house and the man says, well, you should because you’ve been haunting it for the last two years. And it turns out that she even though she lived like a state away, somehow she was astral, projecting into the house at night and having all and they were the people living in the house were experiencing her as a ghost. As soon as she contacted them in this in this space, those experiences stopped. So it’s like a collapsed the the time thing. And so it’s like she stopped showing up in their house as a ghost. But, you know, it just highlights that like and then Paulina’s often told stories of people coming home and they experience a ghost of themself sitting at the kitchen table, then turning and looking at them and asking basically, what the hell are you doing here? Right. So there’s all these weird experiences of of of apparitions that we think are ghosts that are actually living human beings in other dimensions. Right. So I’m really interested in the ontological status of these experiences and these different kinds of beings, which in some cases are nonhuman intelligences. In other cases are what I call alternative human intelligence, is that there are human beings living in other dimensions and somehow we’re bleeding through and connecting with each other. 

[01:19:38] And Paul gives a lot of interesting examples of that. So the whole kind of scientific and philosophical question about in what way are these beings real and how do we understand that and how do we come to terms with that? 

[01:19:52] That’s arguably kind of the thing that gets me up in the morning and keeps me up at night. 

[01:19:59] Yeah, that’s so fascinating. That’s so fascinating. Yeah, because they say it’s like all superimposed and, you know, and then the bail’s thinning. So extraordinary. So I wanted so I shared your studies course in your UFO course link. So can you talk about that. That’s coming up in June. And also talking about can people join this one that the super one that’s you know, it’s, you know, and tell them the prices and how much it breaks down two per month and how all that works, because we would love to support your incredible work, your kids, your pioneer things, and go and think. 

[01:20:42] And, you know, there’s a lot of, you know, participants from that program here tonight and and also part of Ekso Metaverse, which is great. 

[01:20:51] Yes. People can join the year long program for six months through. So we’re halfway through. 

[01:20:57] If someone’s interested in joining, they can email me and I’ll put my email here and I’ll figure out the price point. 

[01:21:07] You know, knew the price was basically a thousand dollars, you know, but since we’re six months through, I’ll figure out know kind of a half price entry point for people who want to be part of the next six months. 

[01:21:23] And if you’re watching this as an archive, you can go to Exos studies dog to contact Shonen if you’re not seeing the chat. 

[01:21:30] Yeah, thank you. The What’s Up with UFO course is starting in June. It’s a six week course. It’s like fifty bucks or one hundred bucks, depending on the basic or the premium package. And so you can go to a UFO course dot com to see that. And basically it’s a course where we walk through the hundred and fifty videos and articles over six weeks. Not that people have to read or watch all of that because I give kind of an overview of all of that. But it’s also a discussion space each week to just explore how this topic of UFOs is increasingly part of the mainstream news conversation. And so it’s a very exciting course. And even people who are like way down the rabbit hole, like most of us here, have really enjoyed that course as well. 

[01:22:20] So and it’s just six weeks. It’s very cheap. So it’s a good entry point if you want to just kind of hang with me and kind of be part of the conversation in that context. The other thing is, starting in May or June, I should have the new studies concentration and the master’s and doctoral program launched. 

[01:22:41] So if people are interested in actually getting a degree, a master’s or PhD with a focus on studies, which includes a really big focus on the useful, logical, extraterrestrial extradimensional aspect, then email me Sean at Meeta Interlaken and Shawna’s Siân or just go to Ekso Studies.

[01:23:04] And contact me through the contact form there, and so I’m very excited to be, you know, very close to the finalization of a graduate program that is making space for this kind of academic inquiry where we can bring experience and theory together and really help create the next wave of the kind of leaders in that context to support disclosure. 

[01:23:30] Incredible. So Susan is asking, you know, it’s it’s OK to start midstream because each topic is is in the yearlong class, right. How does that work? 

[01:23:43] Yeah, so Susan is absolutely stepping in now. Works, you know, each week. You know, there’s a different topic we focus on. And a lot of the themes that we’ve been dealing with for the last six months cycle through the new topics. And you can also go back to whatever extent you have the time and energy to do it and watch all the previous lectures and zoom calls so all that materials there and available. But, you know, and we have people who joined at the beginning of the year, were with us for a few months, and then something big in life happen and they step out for a few months and then they step back in. So it’s really a community of practice for a whole year. And it’s less important to be up to date with all of the topics and content and all the books that I’m summarizing. And it’s more a safe place to talk about our experiences and connect them to the larger field of what’s happening out there. 

[01:24:41] Sean, thank you so much for being here tonight. I know it’s late for you on the East Coast and we really appreciate thank your family for letting us steal you for an hour and a half as well. And we really appreciate this mega download. So much to think about. You’ve made so many references. We’ll try to capture that in the archives. And what’s just been great to to see you and have you sharing your wisdom with everyone. So thanks to everybody tonight for coming. And we’ll see you next time. 

[01:25:17] Thanks.