Riz Virk The Simulated Multiverse

Rough Transcript

• Zenka Caro [00:00:08] Welcome Riz!

  Riz Virk [00:00:11] Hello. Thanks for having me join your program here. 

  Zenka Caro [00:00:15] Yeah, excellent. So we’re going to spend a half an hour with Riz asking questions, and then we’re going to have breakout rooms for a half an hour. And this breakout rooms will give you a chance to connect with other people, share your contact story or your hypothesis on the simulation hypothesis. Right. And then we will be recording in the main room. So you’re not going to miss anything. Riz and I are going to stay right here in the main room continuing the interview. You’re more than welcome to stay in the main room, if you like, with us. If you if you’re feeling shy and don’t want to go into breakout group of four and then we’re going to wrap things up, probably we may have a chance to have a couple of questions and then we’re going to record a contact experiences from the audience. So if you’re fit for our docu series. So I want to tell you a little bit about Riz Virk, he’s an incredible guy. He’s written many books. He is most famous for coming out of MIT and the Play Labs, and he’s started a gaming company. So he knows all about that. And then he also graduated from Stanford in management. So he’s got this whole business mind to him. He’s an entrepreneur, but he’s also got this curiosity that has really come into vogue recently. You know, I’m going to share his website here in the chat so you can check it out. But he’s got books on Zen entrepreneurship and also the simulation hypothesis. He’s going to be coming out with a very new book called The Simulated Multiverse, which is going to be coming out soon. And we’re to talk to him about that. Those of you who are not familiar with Exo Metaverse were a research platform of citizen science research platform learning about non-human intelligence and other dimensions. So Riz, welcome. 

  Riz Virk [00:02:15] Thanks. Thanks for having me here. 

  Zenka Caro [00:02:18] Yeah, so you know, one of the funny things about physics today is that physics is kind of broken so that you have to have a split personality because in one class you’re getting taught one thing and then in another class you’re getting taught something completely contradictory. So we’re in this sort of a pickle where we can’t really describe reality. And you say that the simulation hypothesis could explain everything. So why don’t you take the audience through kind of the basics here so we can get started? 

  Riz Virk [00:02:48] Yeah, sure. [00:02:49]So, you know, the simulation hypothesis for those of you who don’t know is the idea that we live inside a computer generated reality, kind of like an interactive video game, not unlike that depicted in the movie The Matrix. And so, you know, the basic idea is sort of the modern version of an old idea that says that the physical world around us isn’t the real world. And that idea goes all the way back to Plato. And pretty much all of the world religions say that there’s more than the physical world. And so the simulation hypothesis gives us a way to think about that and to really bridge the gap between science, religion and spirituality. [44.1s] And so it serves as a framework. Now, my background as a Zenka mentioned is as a video game designer and entrepreneur and investor. And, you know, [00:03:44]a few years ago, I invested in a company that was making a virtual reality Ping-Pong game. And still I was there. I put the helmet on the VR headset. I started to play the game. And at the end of the game, it felt so realistic that I forgot that I was actually in a game. I actually thought there was a real ping pong table in front of me. So I tried to put the paddle down on the table. And of course, the paddle fell and I tried to lean on the table and I almost fell over. And that’s when I step back. And I said, oh, wow, you know, our virtual reality is getting better. [30.3s] I mean, it wasn’t even a photorealistic game, but it was more the physics engine of the game that made it feel as if there was a real ball that I was actually hitting and it was so responsive. And so I began to wonder, well, what types of technology will be developed in the coming years, in the coming decades? And would we be able to build something like The Matrix, complete with brain computer interfaces so that we would completely forget we were in the physical world? [00:04:44]And so that’s kind of what led me down the rabbit hole of simulation theory, which states that if we will be able to build a virtual reality that is indistinguishable from physical reality, perhaps we are [14.1s] already in one. Someone has already gotten their. 

  Zenka Caro [00:05:02] Yes, very interesting. So what are the things that physics about physics that this help helps explain? 

  Riz Virk [00:05:11] Well, there’s a lot about physics that isn’t well explained. And, you know, and that’s that’s even without all of the unexplained phenomena and UFOs and other things. So if you if you ignore that, there’s still a lot of aspects of physics that don’t make a lot of sense. And if you add that stuff in, then it really don’t make a lot of sense. And so, you know, probably the easiest one is this concept of matter. Right? [00:05:36]Do we live in a physical world? So where is this thing called matter? So every time they try to find it, they keep opening it up and they say, well, the molecules here, oh, there are some atoms, but they’re 99 percent space. Oh, there’s some electrons, but not really. They’re just like these probability clouds. And you keep going into the nucleus and you keep trying to find this thing called matter and you can’t find it. [19.4s] And so there was a famous physicist named John Wheeler who worked with Einstein and Niels Bohr and a lot of the father, the founders of quantum physics. And he said that in his lifetime, physics went through three phases. In the first phase, they thought everything was a solid particle, like a ball, everything was physical, you know, then they realized, well, maybe everything is a field of information, which was the probabilistic model for quantum physics. And he said he came to the conclusion at the end of his life and he died, I think, in the late 90s or maybe even early 2000s. It wasn’t that long ago. But he said at the end he came to the conclusion that the only thing was that was real was information. Right. That what quantum physics was trying to tell us was that everything was a bit a series of yes no questions, which are bits. And so Wheeler coined this phrase, called it from orbit. He said, everything that we think is in it is actually a bit, you know. And then it turns out there’s another physicist turned computer scientist at Oxford named David Deutsch, who said it from Cubitt, which we’ll talk a little bit about quantum computing down the road. But so that’s the first thing is that there doesn’t seem to be anything called matter. There is just information. You know, the second thing is the speed of light. You know, where does it come from? Why is it a constant I mean, this is one of the strangest things for physics to have discovered was that the speed of light seems invariant. That doesn’t make a lot of sense when you think about it, when you’re in different frames of reference. And so, you know, however, if we live in some kind of an electromagnetic world like we do on the computer, I mean, today you guys are listening to me at the speed of light, right? I’m not actually there. Everything is being transformed into bits. It’s being sent over the wire. And so there is this kind of absolute limit to how fast you’ll be able to see me, which is the the speed of light. And so, you know, there’s there’s some evidence there that the speed of light is one of these random constants that maybe isn’t so random, but suggests we may be in some type of an electromagnetic simulation. But then there’s more you know, the whole point of quantum physics is that things are quantized at the lowest level, which means that they’re discrete bits. Well, that’s a lot like pixellated spaces where there’s there’s the absolute smallest amount that you can measure and you can’t measure below that. And a lot of physicists are starting to think that time is also quantized. Well, that also doesn’t make a lot of sense. You know, what does that mean for time to be quantize? It means there’s a minimum quanta of time, just like a photon is a minimum quanta of light. And so that is exactly how computer systems work, is that there’s a clock speed and there’s no way for the computer to measure smaller than the clock speed. So, you know, those are some of the things. And then the main thing that really got me thinking about this was the whole mystery of quantum indeterminacy, which is still a big mystery. Right? I mean, Niels Bohr said anyone who’s not shocked by quantum physics hasn’t really understood it. And, you know, this can best be understood with the idea of superposition, with the example of Schrodinger’s cat, where if the cat is in a box for half an hour, let’s say with some radiate radioactive material, you know, after an hour, the cat is either alive or dead with a 50 percent chance that now common sense would tell us if we lived in a physical world with only one timeline, that the cat is either alive or dead. We just haven’t looked yet. So we don’t know. But it only be one state. But what quantum physics tries to tell us is that the cat is in both states. It’s both alive and dead. And it’s not until we observe it that we really find out which which state it is. And so the cat exists in this weird state of superposition, which also doesn’t make a lot of sense. Well, it turns out in video games we do this all the time. Right. The reason you can go into a video game like World of Warcraft or you can go into a fortnight or really any 3D MMO RPG is because we have rendering techniques. That render only that which you see, so your avatar sees a small part of the scene and the whole scene is actually information that gets rendered on the screen. And so it turns out that the term indeterminacy doesn’t make a lot of sense unless you’re in some kind of a video game like reality where things get rendered based upon your need to see them or to observe them. And so that was, you know, one of the big things is I thought about it that I realized that, you know, physics is suddenly we can have a different model that makes more sense. Kind of like, you know, in the old days, scientists in Europe didn’t think that meteors could fall from the sky or that rocks could fall from the sky. Why not? Because there are no rocks in the sky. So, of course, how could they possibly fall from the sky? So they had the wrong model. That didn’t make a lot of sense. And so, you know, this is a new model in a new way to think about it. So those are some of the highlights of when we talk about physics. 

  Zenka Caro [00:11:00] Yeah, fascinating. Yeah. I you know, I’m curious about this idea that you say, you know, 5000 years ago, The Matrix and everything talked about this being a major or, you know, spiritual. People say you’re in some sort of a dream. Right. And and to wake up from the dream and realize that you are in a dream is is this idea of enlightenment that you realize how it works. Right. So we’re going to talk about the implications. We’re going to have everybody do a thought experiment tonight. And we’re to talk about the implications of this. What if we were in some sort of a world like that? Right. What would be some of the implications be? But I want to go back and, you know, VR has been interesting because, like you said, people who have experienced VR, you can’t tell the difference between real life and not you know, you can stand on the ledge above a cliff and you will not be able to walk off it in VR because your body won’t really let you. Right. So it’s pretty fascinating. But so if we like it, what do you think is base reality then? Like is there contact between and outside of this this thing, this game simulation, whatever it is? Right. Training ground is. What’s your opinion about that? 

  Riz Virk [00:12:24] Well, you know, one of the distinctions that I like to make with simulation theory, that’s a little bit different than when other academics talk about it and scientists talk about it. And that is the difference between the NPC version and the RPG version. And so the NPC version, NPC stands for Non Player Character. And so in a video game, these are the A.I. characters, right? The bank teller or the the opponent that you’re fighting or the random character you could talk to to get a clue? Right. The RPG version is the role playing game version. And in that version, we exist outside the game and we are role playing an avatar within the game. And so those two aren’t mutually exclusive. Right. In a game like World of Warcraft or even League of Legends, there are player characters and non player characters and there all exist together. And so, you know, depending on which of those which part of the spectrum you tend to lean towards, you get a very different view of simulation theory. I tend to lean towards the RPG version, which is that we exist as conscious entities outside of the simulation. And so this is kind of like what happened in The Matrix. If you remember, Neo had to wake up by taking the red pill or the blue pen, or he could have taken the blue pill and stayed in the matrix. And when he woke up, he had this wire connected to him into the back of his brain that was actually beaming the information of the matrix. Now, I’m not necessarily saying that this reality consists of us sitting in pods being used for electricity like in The Matrix. But I do tend to believe that we are in a multiplayer game. What that means is that each of us is actually a conscious entity that exists outside the game. And while we’re here, you know, we play this particular character. I’m playing Riz for a period of time. And then afterwards I’ll be able to look at my performance. And, you know, if you if you study what people who have had near-death experiences tell us, it was a good friend of mine named Dannion Brinkley who wrote this book called Saved by the Light. And he was struck by lightning back in 1975. And this is like a big bestseller back in the 90s. And, you know, and one of the things he talks about is the panoramic life review said that when you die, you have to relive every moment that you ever went through in your life. But you can see it from different people’s perspective, not just see it, but feel it. So there’s this element of hyper reality. But in order to do that, it has to be recorded somewhere. Right. So I’m an engineer. I like to think, OK, how would that work? What that means is we are recording everything and we are playing it back for us in a three dimensional way. It turns out we do this in video games where we can replay like League of Legends, where you can be inside the game, where you can be another character and you can watch what happened from that character’s point of view. And so all the information is recorded and then it’s replayed and rendered as necessary. [00:15:17]And so I guess for me, I think of it more in the RPG version where we are conscious entity is now. What does that look like? I don’t know. Right. I mean, I tend to lean more towards the spiritual perspective. And, you know, you mentioned the Vedas and the Vedas talk about the idea of the Lillah or the grand play of life. And, you know, Shakespeare talks about life being a play and the men and women are merely players in it. [27.2s] Those are metaphors that they used in their time. I’d like to think if Shakespeare was alive today or if the letters were written today, you know, they would say we live in an interactive multiplayer video game. Right. As opposed to, you know, it’s a stage play and or the dream metaphor, which is used quite a bit, you know, within Hinduism and within Buddhism in particular. And there’s a whole school of dream yoga. Right, where they try to teach you the ability to wake up inside the dream. And once you realize that that is just a dream, you can take that same realization with you into what we call the physical world and realize that this is just, you know, a dream as well. [00:16:24]So it’s a dream within a dream, if you will. [1.6s] So so I tend to think it’s some form of us being conscious. But, you know, it’s hard for me to say exactly what that is. 

  Zenka Caro [00:16:35] Yeah, yeah, because in a sense, we could also be perhaps we are we are the AI, right, waking up to ourselves, we could be just running through the program ourselves. You know, you talked about there being a record of everything, and that’s obviously a concept that everybody uses, right, with the court records. And you mention in your book about how Philip K. Dick, who was one of the first really prominent writers who talked about the simulation hypothesis where he had a past life regression, and then he completely blew his mind and changed his world forever and ever and ever. So how do you see that our past lives concurrent? Are they pieces of you that are like how does that fit into your understanding of what? 

  Riz Virk [00:17:24] Well, there’s two topics there. You know, the past lives, you know the way that I think about them. And then we can talk about Philip K. Dick in a minute just because that’s like a big rabbit hole. And in fact, a lot of my second book was because I just went deep into what he had been saying. And when I I interviewed his wife, Tessa Dick, for my first book. And the reason I did that was because he had a famous quote from a sci fi convention. And that’s where he said, we are living in a computer generated reality. And the only clue we have is when some alteration is made, some variable has changed, which alters our reality. But coming back to the idea of past lives, you know, I tend to think past lives are pretty straightforward in in a way, which is that we played a different character. And so just as I can play, you know, Grand Theft Auto or I can play World of Warcraft, I can take on different personas. Those are different runs of the game with different character choices. Now, that’s not to rule out we could have multiple runs of the same game. OK, we’ll talk about that in a minute, which is this idea of the multiverse that we actually have multiple versions of ourselves doing the same things again and again. But coming back to past lives, I mean, I think you don’t have to make a big analogy if you look at reincarnation and the idea is that you have the soul that comes in. I like to say downloads into a body goes through, plays that character. The information gets uploaded. Where does it get uploaded? Right. What is that information? I like to say it gets uploaded to the cloud. Right. That’s the term we use in Silicon Valley. But it has a double meaning here. And what is that information now? This is where Buddhism and Hinduism disagree slightly. [00:19:07]In Hinduism, there is this indestructible soul. And that is the thing that reincarnates in Buddhism is a little bit different. You know, as far as I understand it, a lot of Buddhist scholars say there is no soul persay. The thing that reincarnates is actually a bag of karma. OK, what is the bag of karma? That is basically a set of information that describes what we did in this previous run of the game and the run of the game before that. So karma is like a database and it just keeps building up. And then just like in video games, we have quests and achievements. [36.0s] Right? So I can go in a game and say I’m going to do the quest for the Goblin Gold or I’m going to do a multi party guild thing with a bunch of people. We’re going to do a raid together at this point in time. [00:19:56]And so that tends to match what people who’ve done regressions to not just past lives, but in between lives tell us that they plan certain things with certain people at certain points in the future. [11.4s] And so for me, there’s you know, there’s kind of a clear link between past lives and the simulation hypothesis. And, you know, in my book and simulation about this, I even drafted an algorithm for how questing and karma work, you know, within this, this. And so in some of the traditions, they say the lords of karma are there to create these situations for us. Well, you know, that kind of harkens back to this idea that we have, you know, two angels, a good angel and a bad angel in Islam. And and you probably seen the cartoons in Christianity as well. But really are there are 14 billion angels, you know, as a computer science guy. So you don’t really need 14 billion angels. You just need algorithms that are sitting there doing these things for you. And so you don’t actually need the lords of karma, right. Just as long as you’re recording everything and everything is going into a database, you have this ability to then create new situations based upon that. And so those are the tasks that you still have to complete. And we’re constantly creating new tasks for ourselves. So that’s the past life issue. I can talk about Philip K. Dick, if you want next. 

  Zenka Caro [00:21:14] Well, yeah, but it was occurring to me. You know, that is kind of a weird thing because people in the spirituality community have relationships with certain ascended masters and they call them in and they have certain presences. They have certain energy signatures and things like that. It was always like, wow, these people, these ascended masters be more than one place at the same time. Right. So what you’re saying is, is there their character, so to speak, has already been created? So it exists as a as a as a complete personality, an entity. And it can be called in different ways. 

  Riz Virk [00:21:48] Can a video game, you can have the character show up in multiple places, right? It’s just a matter of rendering. And in fact, you can even have a situation like if you think of how we’re talking today, each of us is rendering this on our own computers, right. [00:22:04]On our laptop or our phone. And so if you use that model and says each of us is rendering the world that we see conditionally based upon some information, we could even be seeing different things. Right. And so now we’re if we touch on the UFO subject, you know, I spent a little bit of time with Jaques Vallet, who, you know, has studied UFOs going back to Project Blue Book, you know, back in the 60s. And and he told me that there are many cases where one person sees a UFO and the other person sitting right next to them doesn’t see it. Right. And so I started to wonder about that. [34.6s] And he told me a lot that there’s a lot of stories like that where UFO will come in and it’ll make a mark on the ground. So that’s a physical evidence. But if yes, how did it get there? Like they’ll say, well, it came in at a 45 degree angle and he looks up and there’s these giant redwood trees and he says, well, how did it come at a 45 degree angle? It would have had to come through the trees. They’re like, yeah, but I don’t want to say that because it sounds crazy, but it actually came through the trees and then it got rendered. And so, you know, you have this idea in video games of conditional rendering that based upon the level of the person, like if you’re a level five and I’m only a lowly level two, you might see something in the scene that I don’t see. And that just it’s just based upon what information is being set down, the data stream to your rendering device, which might be your brain or your mind and what is being sent to my rendering device. So it’s also possible that we’re seeing something slightly different, even though we think we’re seeing the exact same thing. 

  Zenka Caro [00:23:33] You just released a a big article in NBC about disclosure. Do you want to unpack that a little bit? 

  Riz Virk [00:23:41] Yeah, sure. So, you know, the article’s basic thesis was the government is finally taking UFOs seriously. So why aren’t academia and Silicon Valley right? And so the article was really an op ed that talked about some of the the reasons why a lot of people in academia in particular, and even in Silicon Valley, don’t take this UFO topic very seriously. And those of you who’ve been following it, you know, there have been a lot of military sightings that have come out over the past few years, including the Tic-Tac incident, doing crazy things which seem to defy the laws of physics. Right. That it moves from eighty thousand feet to thousand feet in an instant and it’s submerges. And in some cases, it figures out where you’re going to go and gets there before you’re actually there. And that was even too weird to mention in the article. So that part didn’t even make it an article. And so, of course, you know, it’s a mainstream publication. So they ended up cutting down, you know, some of the things. But it gets back to, you know, what are these things? And so my point was just that, you know, if you if you think back to the example I used earlier of how scientists used to dismiss this idea of rocks falling from the sky is that they’re just anecdotal evidence, blah, blah, blah, you know, but it turns out it was that they had the wrong cosmological model about what they’re doing. And once they were willing to examine the evidence, they had to put together a better, better model. That said, there are rocks in the sky. And so, you know, there’s this assumption that, hey, you know, extraterrestrial civilizations live too far away to get here. So it’s unlikely they’re here. So it’s likely that all these UFOs are just, you know, birds, flocks of birds or malfunction. And, you know, this goes back to, you know, John Mack who who started studying alien abductions back in the 90s at Harvard. And he came out very publicly saying, I think something real is happening to these people. And, you know, he was not just pilloried in the press, but at Harvard itself. And they started a big committee. And so there’s this kind of laugh factor now that people use, like Neil deGrasse Tyson says, hey, when the aliens invite me to dinner, then I’ll take the subject seriously. Otherwise, I’m not going to bother taking it seriously. And then within Silicon Valley, it’s almost a nonentity in a way, like Elon Musk was on the Joe Rogan podcast recently and he said, well, if aliens were here, I wouldn’t know, you know? And I said, well, that’s pretty much the attitude that pervades. But the military is telling us that there are things here. We don’t know what they are not necessarily saying. There are extraterrestrials, but we don’t know what they are and we should figure it out. And so, you know, my point is just that both the people and industry as well as people in academia need to get on the ball here and catch up and stop taking it so not seriously and brushing it off and take it seriously enough to try to help figure out what’s going on, because that’s the only way it’s really going to get out is if people are able to share information with each other. And that’s best not done in the military. That’s done, you know, within the scientific community and out in public. 

  Zenka Caro [00:26:38] Why don’t you talk a little bit about the Mandela factories 

  Riz Virk [00:26:42] so well, you know this for me, this actually ties to, you know, the whole idea of what Philip K. Dick believed a little bit. And that’s kind of what got me down the rabbit hole. And so, you know, when I interviewed his wife, you know, she said not only did he believe we were in a computer generated reality, but he believed somebody was fiddling with things. Right. They were actually modifying variables and rerunning the same scene. And so, you know, she said at one point he had a bathroom where they had they lived in an apartment with a bathroom where he thought there was a chain light. And he went in and instead of a chain, there was a switch. And he said, look, something has changed here. This isn’t what it was. And so he started to think that every time he had feelings of deja vu, it was as if they were rerunning, you know, the same scene again and again. And this was true with small things like a light switch, by the way, that was the genesis of the story, the adjustment team, which became the basis for the movie. Did you estimate Berro, which had Matt Damon and Emily Blunt, which some of you may have seen in there, but turns out, you know, he believed this in a much bigger way as well. So some of you may have seen the man in the High Castle, which was the recent series on Amazon, based on his his award winning book from like 1960. I think you wrote it in and in that book, you know, Germany and Japan won World War Two and took over North America and they split the US between them. And so, you know, he claimed that as opposed to being just fiction, he wrote this book from what he called residual fragmentary memories of this other timeline. And he claimed at one point to have gotten the rest of the memories. And so he he claimed that this actually happened, this timeline where, you know, Germany, Japan won World War two and that they rewound the timeline and then they went forward again in a different timeline, which is the timeline that we know of today. And so, you know, this got me thinking a lot about timelines and how do they work. And I realize, well, you know, if you’re in a computer simulated reality, having multiple timelines is no different than having one timeline. All you have to do is stop the run, reload the game state from the earlier part of the time and rerun it again. And in fact, that’s what we do in simulations. Or we run multiple versions of the same simulation and we look at what outcomes we get and we decide from there. And so, you know, I was discussing this with a friend who worked at Google actually here in Mountain View, which is where I live. And he was in town from Boston, where he where he lived and he worked at Google. So I came here every so often and we sat down and he said, hey, have you looked into this thing called Amandola Facts? And, oh, yeah, I’ve heard of it, but I don’t know much about it as well. You really should get into it because, you know, it’s very one of the best explanations for the Mandela effect is that we are inside a simulation and that you can just change variables. And that reminded me of what Philip K. Dick had been saying to us. So I went back and really dug up, you know, the rest of his speech. And it’s worth, if anybody’s really interested, watching or reading that speech because he really gets into a whole different view of the world. But anyway, so this started to get me thinking about multiple timelines in the Mandela effect, which I’m sure most of you have heard of. But the basic idea is that some people remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison in the 1980s. But in fact, in our time line, if you look it up, he didn’t die. He came out of prison in the early 90s and he became. There you go. There’s the numbers there, right, that show us, you know, how many people remember that? Actually, we do have a certain number of percentage. And so there’s a minority memory and then there’s a majority memory and the majority memory is generally that what you will find. And so it turns out there are lots of these different. So Fiona, Fiona Broome was the blogger who first discovered this. She was actually at a sci fi conference called I think Dragon Con in Atlanta. And some people there remembered seeing a Star Trek episode that some of the actors from Star Trek said that never happened. We never filmed that episode. And yet people swore they remember that episode. And so, you know, she thought this was a strange thing. She called it the Mindell effect and put it online. And then people started to come out with many different versions. For example, the tank man, right, who stood in front of the tank in Tiananmen Square. Some people remember him being killed. Right. You can see if you look at the percentages here, they’re all around, you know, 15 to 20 percent, 

  Zenka Caro [00:31:08] by the way, the same percentage. 

  Riz Virk [00:31:10] Yeah, it’s very similar. It. Yeah, the simple truth 

  Zenka Caro [00:31:16] is that if if if if someone were to change the outcome, those would be two things that you would want to change. You would not want I killed by a thing and you would not want Nelson Mandela dying in prison like those would have huge ramifications on the game. 

  Riz Virk [00:31:37] Right. So, you know, I think of it as different runs of the simulation. And you say what happens in this timeline? OK, let’s change this very well and let’s go run it again. And so if you run if you change the big things, certainly some small things are going to change, too, right? I mean, anybody who studies, you know, chaos theory knows that the whole idea of chaos theory is that small changes in initial conditions produce very big variations down the road. And that’s called chaotic. I mean, not chaos in the way we normally think of it, chaotic in the sense that you can’t predict what will happen. And so there’s this concept that a physicist turned computer science guy named Computational Irreducibly, and he said computation error, disability means the only way to to compute something is to actually compute the whole thing. Right. You can’t take a shortcut. So you have to actually run the whole thing to see what the computer program tells you at the end of step two million, one hundred and thirty three. You can’t just say at the beginning what had happened. And so that got me thinking about Tanlines as computational irreducible simulations. And so what that means is to see what would happen if Nelson Mandela died in prison. You have to actually run that simulation out to a certain point in time. And so, you know, that’s where I started to think about the multiverse idea in quantum physics, which is the other explanation that scientists come up with for quantum indeterminacy. Getting back to Schrodinger’s cat, it’s the idea that the cat is both alive and dead, just in different physical universes. Right. And in our case, that would mean there’s a version of me that, you know, went to this college versus that college or that somebody married somebody else, but that all of those possibilities are actually happening. And there are different versions of us out there now in physics. They try to say, well, that’s those are different physical universes. But if you think about it, getting back to it from bit, everything that’s physical is based on information. There’s nothing in nature where you can clone like a whole tree. Right? You can take an acorn, you can take a seed and you can clone it, but it will take you time to do it. And so everything in nature requires time or processing, as I would say, computer processing, except the cloning of information. That’s actually quite easy. You can just usually most processors have a clone operation that just move a bunch of bits from one place to another. And so if you think of a tree like structure and so the new book is all about tree like structures in time. And you can think of it like, you know, these things branching out and then somebody or something is looking at that and saying, hey, which of these branches of the tree do I want to keep and which of these do I want to prune? And then that becomes, you know, if you think of a tree, it doesn’t go in every direction. Right. There’s like a main branch and then there’s like one or two branches and each of them have a few. But it doesn’t go infinite number of times. It might continue to go up and up. But so, you know, I began to think of timeline’s in that way as tree like structures in time, and that the Mandella effect is actually a memory of other time lines that were pruned off of the tree, so to speak. But some of us remember that, you know, in computer science, we also have this idea of a class versus an instance. Variable in an instance is a specific, you know, say a specific box, whereas the class box represent all boxes. And so each instance has its own version of certain memory of certain variables like height and with. And then there may be some that are stored up at the class level. And if you’re going to, you know, kind of merge these and bring things together, you can easily kind of slip up those variables. And so that becomes a way for people to actually remember. So the new book is really just a it’s a thought experiment that says, what if Philip K. Dick was right? What if the Mandella effect is real? How could it actually work using what we know about quantum physics and what we know about time and what we know turns out about simulation theory? I mean, there are many different explanations for the Mandele effect, the one that most mainstream publications give us all. It’s just bad memory. There’s nothing to it. But when you get a large number of people remembering these different things, you know, some of it I think some of the simpler ones are easy to explain with. OK, maybe it’s a little bit of memory. Like did the the the monopoly guy have a monocle or not? Well, people are confusing. When Mr. Peanut, you could make that case for some of the small things. But I think when you get to the bigger things, it becomes harder and harder to explain away. Like one of the people that talks about the Mandela effect online. I forget her name now, but she was a reporter and she actually. Went to South Africa to try to interview Nelson Mandela in prison, and they told her, you can’t, he’s really sick, and then she remembers him dying not much later. And so how likely is it that she made a mistake, that the guy she thought died, you know, was not actually the guy that you just went to see? I mean, if she were to see him, there’s a pretty good chance he actually remembers that. And then one of my favorites, I don’t know if you give us your summary, is the thinker. You know, the sculpture from Rodanthe where, you know, so what’s the post? So, in fact, if anybody’s in this room, show me what you think the poses of the thinker. OK, so I see one person with the forehead, and that’s what most people are saying. OK, now look, one person put it on his chin, right? Well, this is interesting because if you look at it today, it is actually up on the forehead. But what’s interesting is if you look at pictures that people took standing right next to the thinker, there’s people with it under the chin or on the forehead. I forget which one it is. I think the actually the chin is the one that most people remember now, but the forehead is the one that’s the Mandela effect that is not actually there. And so it’s odd that you see pictures of people standing next to the statue with like this. But the statue actually just shows that it’s actually here under the chin. And turns out there’s a famous picture of who is it? Bernard Shaw, I think. Right. George Bernard Shaw, who actually posed for a picture that said in the pose of the Thinker. Right. And so he had his head on his forehead. And so, you know, this is a strange case of a physical object that is different than it was before. And some people say there’s a third version. So it’s not just, you know, is it a fist clenched fist or is it just a hand under the chin? And so it turns out there’s actually a description saying it’s a clenched fist, like, would people not know the difference between a clenched fist or that it’s on a forehead? And so, you know that those are much harder to explain, I think, away in the normal cases of just memory. And so that’s where, you know, multiple time lines that are constantly not just branching out. Quantum physics says timeline’s are branching out, but what they don’t tell you is, well, what happens to those timelines, right? I mean, is it infinite? One thing we don’t necessarily believe in computer science is infinite memory. Right. And so there isn’t infinite you know, there’s always finite resources, whether it’s rendering a game or whatever you’re doing. And so things have to be pruned at some point as opposed to going on. The infinity is kind of the magic for physicists. I like to think it’s like what people say used to say, God, did this physicist say, oh, infinity does this. So therefore we don’t have to worry about how it happens. There’s an infinite number. That’s how happens. And so anyway, that that’s where you get this overlap between the model of quantum physics and simulation theory, because that becomes the only, I think, plausible explanation for this is that you can run the same thing multiple times, you know. 

  Zenka Caro [00:39:19] Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting, if you can run it multiple times, then and if this was a game, wouldn’t you want to make the finale exciting? So, I mean, could it be that we all start at the same time and we all go through it and find our hero or. Well, like, how how I want and I want to get to CERN and I want to get to John Ramirez’s question. So but how has has this understanding changed the way that you live your life? 

  Riz Virk [00:39:50] At all, yeah, so, you know, if you think of it from the point of view of a video game, you know, why do we play video games? Right. Because some people say, well, you know, if I was going to make a game, I would make myself, you know, billionaire. I could have all these houses and do everything I want. And well, the reality is, you know, that wouldn’t be that interesting of a game because there would be no challenges for you in that game. Right. And even in movies. Right. Suppose you had a movie where everything just went great for the hero for Indiana Jones. So there were no challenges along the way. Well, that makes for a pretty boring movie. And so I think the simulation I bought this for me is a great metaphor for this life. And we are here to face up to a certain number of challenges along the way. And so for me, especially like in my case, I’ve gone through some health issues and other challenges. And I think of, you know, some people have it easier than others. Right. It seems like. And why is that? And I think of it like a difficulty level. Almost perhaps some of us chose to have slightly more difficulty than others. And so it reframes some of the things which we think of as negative and some of the reasons for suffering. It’s to really get us through to achieve these things and helps us to have a better perspective. I mean, just like in a video game, you choose your character and you choose the class and the profession and you choose these different attributes of strength and height, you know, all these different aspects, intelligence, etc.. I feel like we all come with different parameters tweaked kind of like in Westworld. Have you ever seen Westworld where they have the iPad like thing, and they can just say, OK, she’s smarter now, they just move this over or. 

  Zenka Caro [00:41:39] And that’s what I mean. If we believe with astrology, astrology and everything like that, you know, gene keys and all those things, it tells you a lot about who you like. Your character profile is right there. 

  Riz Virk [00:41:53] Right? Right, exactly. That’s sort of the basic template, 

  Zenka Caro [00:41:57] you know what I mean? Yeah. 

  Riz Virk [00:41:58] Yeah. But then, you know, that doesn’t mean you can’t change it. Just like in Westworld, you can change things and choose to go in different directions. You might have more difficulty, you know. But, you know, look, I think we all have storylines that we are here to implement and we all have people that we are we choose to have certain adventures with. And so getting back to why do we play video games? Well, the real reason is to have experiences we can’t have in outside of the game. Right. So I can’t fly on a dragon and slay works in in in real life, as we call it, or be an NBA star. But I can do it inside a video game. Well, similarly, you asked what is based reality? I would say, you know, based reality where we can’t have some of the experiences that we’re having now. And so, you know, this becomes a playground a little, if you will, going back to the term as a place for us to have these interactive experiences. And they seem real at the time. But at the end of the game, you know, I’m writing a book about Yogananda, you know, who wrote Autobiography of a Yogi for HarperCollins, India. And, you know, one of the things he talked about was he asked his guru, why are all these people suffering? And this was during World War One. And his guru said, well, if you watch a movie about a war and people are dying, are they suffering or not? Well, yes, their characters are suffering, but in the end, they’re not that, you know, that is what made that that movie interesting was that it was a World War movie. Similarly, we may be living in a pandemic movie, et cetera, within this timeline. And so those are part of the reasons why we come here, I think. But that, you know, that’s just sort of my personal opinion and take on it and how it’s affected me personally. So and by the way, it’s a great way to introduce these spiritual ideas to the younger generation who spend more time on video games than really any other generation has. 

  Zenka Caro [00:43:51] Well, and in the slang is already there. You know, it’s like they say, I got a download or we’re going to exchange code. You know what I mean? Like that, you know? 

  Riz Virk [00:44:02] Yeah. I mean, for them, it’s quite natural, right? There’s no it’s not a strange thing to be meeting in the virtual world inside fortnight. Right. I mean, that’s become one of the the biggest places for people. They don’t even, you know, fight monsters or do they fight each other? They just kind of hang out in for Neo dives. 

  Zenka Caro [00:44:18] I mean, but I believe in with the the wisdom metaverse that we’re believe that we’re actually building the most exciting game is for us to up level our meat suits into higher consciousness. Right. Like, so how can we do telepathy? How can we do spoonfeeding? How can we do, like, instantaneous healing like this? So that becomes the real game. And if we share information on how to do it, it becomes really exciting because it’s stuff that we thought was impossible. And all of a sudden you can see through like kids are seeing through blindfolds, you know what I mean? With extra Arcturian. I mean, just, you know, viewing, it’s like, OK, so. So, yeah. 

  Riz Virk [00:44:59] So it is like up leveling. Right. And so when you say what is the purpose of the game, is it to up level ourselves to get beyond this at some point, once you once you get tired of the game, you say, OK, let me find out what’s really going on here. And then you can start to do things like manipulate the game and do other things which we may already be doing at a certain level. We just don’t know that we’re doing that. 

  Zenka Caro [00:45:21] Yeah. And Ari, who’s on the call, he’s a he he’s a neuroscientist, also interested in this. And he he sees the game that we’re in now is also it’s like the ecosystem game. So we all have to survive what’s coming up and we have to work together to do it. And that’s the classic thing to write is, is this, you know, and that’s how cooperative games are working now. It’s like everybody and that’s what we have to do. We have to get over our disagreements and come together to to to to surmount the hero’s journey, which we’re in right now. It’s like the climax. Right. And I think we will. I think we will if we if humans, the humans can communicate. I think we’ve got we’ve got a good start. So I want to ask you about CERN. I don’t know if this is a topic that you are as super versed in. I don’t know. But there’s this rumor out there that when we collide particles, we actually cause disruptions in the like or that they were able to access the parallel universe. And there’s also kind of within the galactic community, they’re always like the aliens are coming here because you guys are doing nuclear bombs and that’s going to totally mess up everything. Right. So there’s some the idea that even in this world, that there are some things that actually would cause problems. What’s your take on what CERN is doing? 

  Riz Virk [00:46:48] Well, you know, I can’t say I’m super well versed in what CERN is doing, but I did look into it a little bit because of the Mandela effect. Right. And so there are people who believe that it was something in at CERN and the Large Hadron Collider that actually caused a parallel reality to break out. And so that’s why people were remembering another timeline that was created because of that. You know, that said, I think it’s maybe a little more than that. I mean, I don’t think it’s necessary. One physics experiment. I mean, I’m a big fan of science fiction. And so there are I don’t know if anybody has seen the the TV show called Fringe Right. They had kind of a parallel reality. And then there was another one called Counterpart, where there was some kind of physics experiment that created a separate world. And in that case, there was a counterpart of every person and then there was a shared history. It was kind of the opposite of the in fact. Right. The Menella. Fact is, you remember a different history and counterpart. It was like you have an exact shared history up to the point at which the two time lines diverged and then they become different people. But you can travel back and forth between them. You know, I have heard from people on within the kind of alien contact world that they’ve gotten messages of ecological disaster, but that, in fact, some of these so-called aliens are actually time travelers from the future who are saying don’t go down this timeline. Right, that we went down the same timeline that you went down and therefore you have to change things. Otherwise you’re going to end up like us. And we are at a point where we can’t genetically reproduce. And that’s what led to some of the the abduction phenomenon, which seemed to have something to do with reproduction and genetics. So there’s a lot of interesting theories out there. You know, I think if you. Take the simulation perspective, you know, that really, you know, as I mentioned earlier, you have this idea of multiple timelines being spun off and then a selection process that goes into place. And it turns out that that’s what we do in quantum computers. So if anyone’s familiar with quantum computers instead of having bits, you have qubits. And what is a cubit? A Cuban is a bit in superposition, so it has a value of both one and zero. And so in a quantum computer, which we’re just now starting to create, I mean, we have, like, I don’t know, 10 bits or qubits or something like that. And some IBM and many of these companies are creating them. And the way you run a program is you use what’s called quantum parallelism and you say, OK, I’m going to take the these two hundred and fifty six cubits, whatever number. Right. And I’m going to take every possible value of those. Right. So that’s like, you know, two to two hundred fifty six. Right. So it’s a pretty big number. There’s only like 10 to the 80 particles but that 

  Zenka Caro [00:49:45] are four to the two. Well anyway, because 

  Riz Virk [00:49:48] it depends how many cubits you have. Yeah. Sorry, it’s derivative. Yeah. So you can do the calculation there and figure that out. But because you’re taking every single possible value of each bit, you’re spinning off these parallel worlds and then you are somehow doing what’s called an interference pattern. And so within quantum physics, you know, there’s this idea that these other particles in other worlds actually interfere with the current one. And that’s what creates these interference patterns when with the two split or the double split experiment. But then you use that to figure out what the right answer is. And then you have to basically when you measure, that’s what causes the collapse of these different qubits into a singular value. And you have to be kind of very clever about how you do it, but you then find the answer that you’re looking for. So then the kind of computer moves on to do the next problem. So my question is, what happened to all those worlds that were spun off the last time you ran the quantum computer? And so that’s why I think what we have maybe closer to what a quantum computer does, which is that it tries out different possibilities. It optimizes based upon some function or algorithm, which may have to do with the players. And in fact, there was a movie called The Mandela Effect. There was a sci fi movie a couple of years ago, I think it was twenty nineteen where, you know, the guy was a video game designer and his daughter died. He sort of remembered this reality where she’s still alive. And so he found a quantum computer and forced it to crash the universe because the universe was actually a quantum computer. And so when we create quantum computers, it begins to crash. And so, you know, I tend to think that there’s something funny going on with that more so than CERN or something else. But again, that’s just my opinion. 

  Zenka Caro [00:51:35] Yeah. You know, you you talk about running all the different scenarios, and sometimes people say that we are an aspect of God. We’re like the experience of this thing. Right. And we’re having our own little point of light experience. So that again, leads me to think like, wow, I wonder if we are I just running through different scenarios. 

  Riz Virk [00:51:59] Right, right. Well, that’s another way to think about it, which is we are these processes 

  Zenka Caro [00:52:04] by waking up or you know what I mean. 

  Riz Virk [00:52:07] Yeah. And if you think about it like what’s happening now with A.I. is that A.I. plays itself. Right. It’s a process called self play. And so, like, you know, when you think of the game, go like I first won that game against, you know, professional go players, which is very difficult to do. And the way it could do is it would play itself right. Millions of times, literally, and discover the best strategies. And so it’s possible that we are an aspect of this higher consciousness and each of us is individualized for a period of time, too. And we run through these scenarios and now we’re getting to this idea of God, but also the Buddhist point of view where each of us is individualized only as long as necessary for having the experiences that we need to have. And then we get merged back into the hole. And that’s where the idea of the drop in the ocean comes into play. 

  Zenka Caro [00:52:57] Right, right, right, right. So I want to get to John rematches this beautiful question. So he wanted to know it. Well, he’s asking you can interpret it here, but he’s also kind of posing the question he talks about. For those of you watching the replay and are not reading the question, he talks about a cave environment, which is a simulated environment created by the government. And then he poses the question, well, who’s writing the rules for the simulated universe? Because there does seem to be rules. These then investors say there are rules to this, which you know. 

  Riz Virk [00:53:36] Well, I think there are rules. There are rules of physics, for example. Right. That generally restrict us unless, you know, the the codes, I guess, is the way that I would think of it, right, is that you can cheat the codes and you can show up in multiple places. Right. There’s so many stories of by location. Right. That it happened within the yogic traditions, but also in the Catholic tradition, right. Where there was this nun. You know, Diana Patoka writes about this in her book, American Kozmic. She’s a professor of religion at University North Carolina, about this particular nun who showed up in New Mexico, even though she was in a tower or in Spain in a monastery or nunnery, whatever you call it, in Spain. And yet people said they met her in New Mexico, said there was this Catholic nun and it was it was, you know, pretty interesting, well documented cases of by location and, of course, the yogic traditions. It’s within like Yogananda autobiography. It happened so often that, oh, wow, all these guys know how to do this. Right. It could be more than one place at once. And so, you know, I think just like when we make a video game, we will put down the rules. And so, for example, in Second Life, I don’t know if any of you have played Second Life. You know, you can fly, you can walk, you can also teleport yourself from one location to another. And so those rules are kind of fixed. But, you know, there are also times when you’re just rendering yourself in a scene where you can walk through walls because the scene hasn’t fully rendered yet. And so they’re not exactly solid. And so I think there’s a lot of different aspects of these rules. But I do believe we have a basic physics engine, but we also have the tools from being super users of getting beyond those rules. And I think that’s the kind of stuff that you were talking about before, you know, about being able to bend spoons and do other things which physics physicists don’t believe because they don’t believe the rules are bendable at all. 

  Zenka Caro [00:55:29] Yeah, oh, do you know anything about the Dyson megastructure, is that he’s asking about here or. 

  Riz Virk [00:55:35] Well, there’s this idea of the Dyson sphere, that one I know, yeah. So the basic idea is that as a civilization gets more advanced, it’s able to use more energy. And so at some point, you know, the biggest source of energy for civilization is its sun or star. And so you could build a megastructure around the star and you could basically soak up all of that energy from the sun and then utilize that energy in some way. And so this is sort of a theoretical concept of a civilization so advanced that they could harness the power of a star. There’s also this cartouche of scale, which as a civilization has, you know, can harness the energy of a planet, a star, an entire galaxy. And so you get into these different, you know, these different levels. And so one interesting aspect of that is there are people who believe that is how we should be looking for alien civilizations is to look for artifacts of the civilization. And if you’ve ever heard of the Drake equation, which is equation by astronomer Frank Drake, for the likelihood of being able to detect an alien signal from another planet using radio waves, there’s all these factors like the percentage of stars in the solar system, the percentage of stars and other planets, the percentage of those planets habitable zone that could support life. And so he didn’t know those numbers when he made the Drake Equation, those back in like nineteen sixty one and so said he’s been using. But there was a variable at the end called I think L which was the civil that the length that a technological civilization survives before it destroys itself. Right. And so part of the theory is there may have been lots of civilizations that are not currently broadcasting because they’re all dead, but there are artifacts of those civilizations still out there. And so there’s a professor at Harvard named Avi Loeb who thinks that more and more, you know, that the first interstellar object was actually a leitzel. So he said that we should be like archeologists and look for technological remnants of these civilizations. And so there was a star, I think was the last year, the year before called Tabi Star, which whose intensity was varying and they couldn’t figure out why. And so some people said, well, it’s because there’s a Dyson megastructure around the star. And so it dims the star when it goes by the star, other others. I just thought it was a big cloud of gas, but the ones I think has really figured out what that was. And so, you know, I think that’s that’s kind of interesting. I also think those civilizations get more advanced. They learn to be more efficient, not less efficient. You know, it’s almost like we don’t broadcast out, you know, TV signals as strong as we did before because who watches broadcast TV anymore? And it’s usually done through the Internet. And if instead of me broadcasting a message, I send it specifically to a specific person. And so we actually get more efficient in how we send out messages. So the more advanced civilization is, the less energy it may use. So you may have a really weird situation where energy consumption goes up and then it comes down because they actually discover how to harness, you know, whether it’s the underlying power of the universe, et cetera. But, yeah, I mean, the Dyson sphere is an interesting concept. I don’t know so much about swarms. I think it’s just instead of a solid sphere, it’s it’s a set of individual objects, which is actually more likely when you think about it. I mean, if you’re going to build something around a star, not only does that seem pretty impossible, but it’s a lot easier, like, for example, today to set up satellites around the Earth. And so one of the things that Avi Loeb is proposing is we look for planets that have a swarm of satellites around it. Right. Because that is an indication of an intelligent civilization that’s on there. And so similarly, you could do that around the star to soak up as much solar energy as you need, really, for anything. 

  Zenka Caro [00:59:25] OK, so, John, I’m going to go ahead and add you welcome 

  Speaker 3 [00:59:31] just briefly on Dyson than it was in the context of what are the chances that we are basically living in someone’s huge. Universally huge Dyson sphere, and that what we see of stars, those worlds, what we can measure as radiation that we think is from the Big Bang is actually being projected to us. And that was just a thought experiment that we had. What is what? What is it? And that came out of actually working in the cave is actually like a holodeck with us. We don’t know. It’s the primitive form of a holodeck you where things on your body that when you you bathe the entire environment with electromagnetic signals and as you walk in wearing all the equipment, as you confront in your goggles an object, you can reach out and actually touch it. And the goggles has tactile feel. And when you can squeeze it and touch it and in fact you can like holding your hands, a little dolphin you can play with, you just toss it up and you can feel the splash of the water and toss it up or just toss it to someone else and they can catch it. Not all can happen inside that simulated environment, but we wrote the model first. We had to model that environment before we simulated it. And so I don’t know who’s modeling a simulated universe. And I don’t know if you have any more insight into that. 

  Riz Virk [01:01:04] Sure, yeah, well, I think, you know, there’s a lot of pieces of that technology that are getting out there now, there’s something called the Tesla suit, which you can put on and then you can feel, you know, the sensations they’ve recorded. So like this rugby player in the UK, you know, ended up getting tackled while he had it on. And so you could put on the suit and you could basically feel what it was like. It’s still the haptic, you know, comes into play. But, yeah, I mean, I think that’s one of the forms of simulation is that everything is being beamed to us, you know, from whether it’s a projection screen or, you know, a lot of people simulation that we think about a computer the size of a planet or the size of a solar system because of all the processing power that would be needed to keep track of all of us individually. And so that’s one of the theories, is that when civilization got that big, their computers got so big that they were able to do all of this and that we are just A.I. running. You know, on top of that, that that simulation, which a little bit different than, say, the zoo theory, which is that we are in some sort of cosmic zoo and the other civilizations are out there watching us and they’re only projecting, you know, what what they want us to see from outside the solar system, which sort of maybe is a similar concept, a little bit different. But, yeah, in terms of who’s running the simulation, you know, that’s your guess is as good as mine, right. It ranges from aliens to, you know, future time travelers. Philip K. Dick believed we were really still in a Roman time type environment that was running these simulations forward and that he woke up and he saw himself in this kind of, you know, very Roman type of of era and said, oh, that’s the real world. This is the simulated world. But he also claimed to have been in contact with beings that told him that they were running these simulations and that they were actually running these different timelines. And then one of those timelines, JFK was killed in Dallas, but they kept changing it, but he kept getting killed in other cities. And when he didn’t get killed, it ended up in a nuclear war. And so, you know, I can’t say that I’ve necessarily, you know, been in contact with those particular beings, but that’s one way of thinking about it, is what we think of as aliens are actually simulators watching us to communicate with that. 

  Zenka Caro [01:03:24] Fascinating. Sometimes I wonder if we’re in some sort of a code for two, so we’re essentially covered maybe, John, like programing because we’re creating, right? We’re all creating and then the environment feed back on itself. Right. As a permanence. And that, you know, when we talk about the ascension, maybe it’s a code fork. Maybe they’re like, you guys are messing up the entire simulation because you’re about to, you know, get in a World War three or, you know, do the climate change. So we’re going to have to fork off half of you to make sure that we don’t tank the whole thing, because once the laws of physics, like you said, are real. Right. So once you have New World War three, it’s the planet has to decay. Right, because it’s not right. But anyway, that’s one of those wild what if things and if you if you use that container is a simulation, then you can start doing all sorts of weird acrobatics of the what if, what if, what if. Is there one final question, one burning final question for Riz before he signs off and then we’ll stay on for Katherine’s story and make story. 

  Speaker 4 [01:04:29] So my question is, rather than living in a I generated reality, could in a world telepathically control human beings utilizing the physics of quantum entangled teleportation of information. 

  Riz Virk [01:04:53] So could an A.I. control us using quantum entanglement or teleportation of information? Well, it’s interesting because, you know, there’s this idea of quantum teleportation that the Chinese universities in particular have been experimenting with, and they’re saying they’re transporting a quantum particle from one place to another. But really what they’re transforming is information. Transporting is actually information. So it’s slightly more like quantum cloning of information. But in the end, if we think of everything as just information and data streams that are coming in, then it’s very possible. Like in a simulated environment in an NPC, I can change the bits. So in my new book, I have this scenario where if you have a little world would say or expand ogre’s as NPCs and you just change the history, the bits in the memory of the ogre, it thinks it’s already been in this room and not that room. And then you just change one bit and now it no longer thinks it’s been there. And so it’s very possible that people are changing bits of information in our minds and that we’re using that information to kind of perceive what’s going on around us. Mean personally, I think entanglement is more like a compression algorithm ET’s so that the universe doesn’t need as many bits of information. It’s like, you know, the reason I can watch Game of Thrones on my iPhone is because in all the winter, scenes have to pixels are white. Right? And so you can kind of compress all that information based upon that. So I tend to be, you know, more from that point of view. But, yeah, I would think that whoever is running, if they’re running a simulation, you know, they could have parameters and that these guys could be sending us messages to try to guide us in a certain way or in a different way. You know, even what we call angels in the religious traditions, our messengers or, you know, prosti. I like to call them processes without free will. Right. And so they are running and they have certain, you know, priorities and that they are beaming that information. And that’s a more religious take on the same idea, which is that you have these processes or A.I. that are sending information and changing it for each of us individually. So I think that that could certainly be the case. 

  Zenka Caro [01:07:15] Awesome. Yeah, I want to thank everyone tonight who, you know, who is new to this idea can seem kind of cold and weird and scary. And obviously it’s just an idea, just like we think of things as a dream or not a dream or whatever. So thanks, everyone, for hanging in there with us. You know, this topic was not really talked about. You know, it’s it’s extremely new. It’s extremely jarring. And it’s, you know, it can feel a little weird. So thanks, everybody, for for hanging in there for this exploration tonight. And thank you, Riz. We’re going to stay on for ten more minutes, but just wanted to thank you so much for being with us tonight in Chicago. 

  Riz Virk [01:07:56] Thanks for having me on and really enjoyed being here with everybody and feel free to reach out to me. Zenka has my contact info. 

  Zenka Caro [01:08:03] OK, great. And I’m going to share your book, which will be coming out soon here in a WebSphere in the chat as well. The first ones available and this one is soon to be available. 

  Riz Virk [01:08:16] So, yeah, you can preorder the second one now. So, OK, bye, everyone. 

  Zenka Caro [01:08:23] If you so much Riz. All right, so thanks, everybody, for joining us tonight. We love being in community with you guys. This is going to be an interesting couple months ahead and it’s just great to you guys are really the pioneers and the leaders. And we thank you for using your voice and using your curiosity to explore the mysteries of.